Comments on: So tell us, just why does the world need yet another 32-county party… or Fianna Fáil and the North.

By: Any rags, any bones, any bottles today… « Splintered Sunrise

Any rags, any bones, any bottles today… « Splintered Sunrise — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:44:51 +0000

[...] organising seriously in the North, with an eye to contesting the next Stormont election. (Also, see WorldbyStorm on this.) It’s a bit of a turnaround – although Fine Gael and Irish Labour were founded as [...]

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:58:21 +0000

I’d completely agree, hence in part my comment about what remains of the UK in the post. That is a very interesting point you make about FF in such a context.

By: Andy Newman

Andy Newman — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:21:06 +0000

I think when discussing the realtionship between political parties in the six counties and in britain, it is importnat to recognise the degree to which this is becoming a side show for British unionism.

The union that matters, and which is under threat as never before is that with Edinburgh, with 59% of English supporting an Independent Scotland, and 53% of Scots.

This is also having a big effect on conservative opinion who have some institutional incentive to reposition themselves as an English nationalist party, and nothing to be gained in terms of English politics in defending the union with the six counties.

if the Union breaks up on the Eastern side of the Irish sea, then the GFA paradigm (as currently constituted) is probably non-viable. There would then need to be talks with Dublin, Edinburgh and London, and if FF was the only governing party that had some democratic mandate withini the six counties then their hand would be much stronger.

By: franklittle

franklittle — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:09:12 +0000

Just on a couple of WBS’ points. According to today’s Herald AM (I know, not the best of sources but still) Dermot Ahern has said they have no interest in competing for seats in Westminster and some Unionist was quoted as saying the last thing the North needed was another abstentionist party.

To me, this decision was a logical outcome from the decline of the SDLP, which was supported by successive Irish governments and the Department of Foreign Affairs in particular. I remember reading Delaney’s ‘The Accidental Diplomat’ about Foreign Affairs staffers writing speeches and making sure passports were delivered for SDLP representatives.

Simply put, the SDLP was Dublin’s front organisation, but it is one in permanent decline. The party has three Westminster seats, one of which can be seen as safe (Foyle), one of which is under threat (South Down), and one of which can be written off (South Belfast). There are no real areas of gain opening up at Assembly level for them and financially their situation continues to worsen.

Better for Fianna Fáil to go North now, open up the second front against the Shinners and take over the SDLP’s vote/organisation while Fine Gael and Labour are still thinking about it. The reaction of Sinn Féin is instructive on this. While they will face electoral damage from this, they see the political benefits of Southern parties organising in the North and seem to believe this will create its own dynamic, both within those parties as organisations, and within Southern politics, towards unity.

By: Ed Hayes

Ed Hayes — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:41:04 +0000

It would cause problems for the SDLP internally, (not that they have a very vibrant internal party structure, but all the same); at the last Northern elections FF, FG and Labour all went north to show support for the SDLP (for all the good it did them etc…) but that trio does reflect the fact that there are SDLP members who feel affinity to Fianna Fail certainly, but also to Fine Gael (back in the Garret Anglo-Irish Agreement days FG were seen as delivering on ending the ‘nationalist nightmare’ and saving the SDLP from the Provos remember) and some members do consider themselves labourites of the type who would vote Labour in the south or in Britain. Admittidly the Rabbitte/Gilmore leadership does have a bit of a unhappy link to the WP for some in the SDLP, but I’m sure they would get over it if needs be. can’t see how this is going to work to anyone’s satisfaction, except propaganda value for FF; ‘now we’re an all-Ireland party too.’

By: conor mccabe

conor mccabe — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:34:40 +0000

I reckon it’s a resources war. SF now have to fight FF on two fronts, and FF are hoping that the subsequent drain on SF’s recourses will slow SF’s growth into new communities down south. FF simply have more money than SF and this is the way to use it. SF has to protect its core up north, and that may be at the expense of its growth down south.

FF’s move is a counter-attack, and it doesn’t really matter if they make many gains as long as it slows SF down.