Comments on: Regretfully, Yes http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/ For Lefties too Stubborn to Quit Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:05:24 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: WorldbyStorm http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-36137 WorldbyStorm Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:29:46 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-36137 Well, <em>some</em> at the CLR... I guess including myself... :) Well, some at the CLR… I guess including myself… :)

]]> By: Neil Ward : Why I’m voting YES. http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-36135 Neil Ward : Why I’m voting YES. Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:43:17 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-36135 [...] There’s an attitude I’ve heard murmerings about, that if everyone is in agreement on this, there must be something wrong with it.  That’s the stupidest argument I’ve heard, and should be immediately discounted.  No matter what your political leanings, the Lisbon Treaty makes sense.  That is why it has been endorsed by both IBEC (Employer’s Confederation) and ICTU (Congress of Trade Unions).  That’s why it has been endorsed by Labour, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Progressive Democrats and the Green politicians.  That’s why it has been endorsed by ICAI (Chartered Accountants), ITI (Irish Taxation Institute), IFA (Irish Farmer’s Association), ICMSA (Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association), Alliance for Europe (a civil society pro-Europe grouping) and even the Cedar Lounge Revolution. [...] [...] There’s an attitude I’ve heard murmerings about, that if everyone is in agreement on this, there must be something wrong with it.  That’s the stupidest argument I’ve heard, and should be immediately discounted.  No matter what your political leanings, the Lisbon Treaty makes sense.  That is why it has been endorsed by both IBEC (Employer’s Confederation) and ICTU (Congress of Trade Unions).  That’s why it has been endorsed by Labour, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Progressive Democrats and the Green politicians.  That’s why it has been endorsed by ICAI (Chartered Accountants), ITI (Irish Taxation Institute), IFA (Irish Farmer’s Association), ICMSA (Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association), Alliance for Europe (a civil society pro-Europe grouping) and even the Cedar Lounge Revolution. [...]

]]> By: Who killed Cock Robin? « The Cedar Lounge Revolution http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-33230 Who killed Cock Robin? « The Cedar Lounge Revolution Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:30:24 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-33230 [...] some of the causes.  Why didn’t it pass?  Who is to blame?  I’ve already outlined my opinion of the Treaty, and while I’m aware it’s still unlikely to find too much favour around here, it [...] [...] some of the causes.  Why didn’t it pass?  Who is to blame?  I’ve already outlined my opinion of the Treaty, and while I’m aware it’s still unlikely to find too much favour around here, it [...]

]]> By: Why I’m voting YES. « Neil Ward http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-33052 Why I’m voting YES. « Neil Ward Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:13:39 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-33052 [...] There’s an attitude I’ve heard murmerings about, that if everyone is in agreement on this, there must be something wrong with it.  That’s the stupidest argument I’ve heard, and should be immediately discounted.  No matter what your political leanings, the Lisbon Treaty makes sense.  That is why it has been endorsed by both IBEC (Employer’s Confederation) and ICTU (Congress of Trade Unions).  That’s why it has been endorsed by Labour, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Progressive Democrats and the Green politicians.  That’s why it has been endorsed by ICAI (Chartered Accountants), ITI (Irish Taxation Institute), IFA (Irish Farmer’s Association), ICMSA (Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association), Alliance for Europe (a civil society pro-Europe grouping) and even the Cedar Lounge Revolution. [...] [...] There’s an attitude I’ve heard murmerings about, that if everyone is in agreement on this, there must be something wrong with it.  That’s the stupidest argument I’ve heard, and should be immediately discounted.  No matter what your political leanings, the Lisbon Treaty makes sense.  That is why it has been endorsed by both IBEC (Employer’s Confederation) and ICTU (Congress of Trade Unions).  That’s why it has been endorsed by Labour, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Progressive Democrats and the Green politicians.  That’s why it has been endorsed by ICAI (Chartered Accountants), ITI (Irish Taxation Institute), IFA (Irish Farmer’s Association), ICMSA (Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association), Alliance for Europe (a civil society pro-Europe grouping) and even the Cedar Lounge Revolution. [...]

]]> By: Win or lose.. what happens next after Lisbon? « The Cedar Lounge Revolution http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-32996 Win or lose.. what happens next after Lisbon? « The Cedar Lounge Revolution Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:30:46 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-32996 [...] my slight tilt towards a Yes vote (as noted in the comments to this post by a contributor to the Cedar Lounge Revolution) I’m really much more interested in the [...] [...] my slight tilt towards a Yes vote (as noted in the comments to this post by a contributor to the Cedar Lounge Revolution) I’m really much more interested in the [...]

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-32872 WorldbyStorm Thu, 29 May 2008 17:10:31 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-32872 I don't disagree, although I think that self-interest is involved in every aspects of human/societal relations so it has to be accepted and then we move on. Hmmm... and yet, still no actual source for these figures. I don't trust him/them any more than the higher figure. I don’t disagree, although I think that self-interest is involved in every aspects of human/societal relations so it has to be accepted and then we move on.

Hmmm… and yet, still no actual source for these figures. I don’t trust him/them any more than the higher figure.

]]> By: Wednesday http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-32857 Wednesday Thu, 29 May 2008 09:51:19 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-32857 To the extent it's just agreeing not to facilitate other states' exploiting their own people, no problem. I say that with the caveat that I'm generally suspicious how much self-interest is usually involved in these agreements. On your second point, scroll down to the penultimate paragraph <a href="http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1211542377674530.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> :) To the extent it’s just agreeing not to facilitate other states’ exploiting their own people, no problem. I say that with the caveat that I’m generally suspicious how much self-interest is usually involved in these agreements.

On your second point, scroll down to the penultimate paragraph here :)

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-32817 WorldbyStorm Wed, 28 May 2008 06:37:14 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-32817 Ah, so would it be fair to say its the capital elements that concern you most about the EU? That's grand. How about political power in areas such as joint foreign policy (I'm thinking of a more coherent approach to regimes that don't uphold human rights - I'm not talking about intervention in military form)? Incidentally, I see the SF leaflet that came through my door last night quoted 80%! Ah, so would it be fair to say its the capital elements that concern you most about the EU? That’s grand. How about political power in areas such as joint foreign policy (I’m thinking of a more coherent approach to regimes that don’t uphold human rights – I’m not talking about intervention in military form)?

Incidentally, I see the SF leaflet that came through my door last night quoted 80%!

]]> By: Wednesday http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-32815 Wednesday Wed, 28 May 2008 05:40:11 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-32815 If you're looking for a numerical figure, I can't give one. I think the nature of the "pooling" is more important. I don't have a great thought-out theory on this, so I'm sure you'll be able to poke holes in it :) but what I'd say roughly is this: as "sovereignty of nations" is really "sovereignty of people" writ large, pooling which results in extension of the rights of the people - that is to say, human rights, including social and economic rights - I don't generally have a problem with. The further you get from that, and the more towards things like prioritising the free flow of capital, the less acceptable I find it. As I said, that's just a rough sketch. If you’re looking for a numerical figure, I can’t give one. I think the nature of the “pooling” is more important. I don’t have a great thought-out theory on this, so I’m sure you’ll be able to poke holes in it :) but what I’d say roughly is this: as “sovereignty of nations” is really “sovereignty of people” writ large, pooling which results in extension of the rights of the people – that is to say, human rights, including social and economic rights – I don’t generally have a problem with. The further you get from that, and the more towards things like prioritising the free flow of capital, the less acceptable I find it. As I said, that’s just a rough sketch.

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/regretfully-yes/#comment-32792 WorldbyStorm Tue, 27 May 2008 17:56:20 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1338#comment-32792 Wednesday, now you've really piqued my interest on this issue. I've been searching and hope to report back with findings later in the week. It's a great issue. Slightly off the point can I ask you re sovereignty, what level of pooling do you think is appropriate and what isn't? Wednesday, now you’ve really piqued my interest on this issue. I’ve been searching and hope to report back with findings later in the week. It’s a great issue.

Slightly off the point can I ask you re sovereignty, what level of pooling do you think is appropriate and what isn’t?

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