Comments on: The Lisbon campaign falters ever onwards. http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/ For Lefties too Stubborn to Quit Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:52:50 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Eagle http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32867 Eagle Thu, 29 May 2008 14:40:54 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32867 Garibaldy I sent an e-mail to the European office here and they sent me a copy of the treaty. For free. Forget about that asking price, that's only for those not voting in a referendum. Can't have all 300m getting copies now, can we? Garibaldy

I sent an e-mail to the European office here and they sent me a copy of the treaty. For free. Forget about that asking price, that’s only for those not voting in a referendum. Can’t have all 300m getting copies now, can we?

]]> By: Garibaldy http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32855 Garibaldy Thu, 29 May 2008 08:55:57 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32855 Given the price of drink in the free state, not very many. Given the price of drink in the free state, not very many.

]]> By: CL http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32854 CL Thu, 29 May 2008 08:24:53 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32854 Garibaldy: So if the Dev/McQuaid constitution is valued at less than a pint, how many pints is the Lisbon treaty worth? Garibaldy:
So if the Dev/McQuaid constitution is valued at less than a pint, how many pints is the Lisbon treaty worth?

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32848 WorldbyStorm Thu, 29 May 2008 06:42:37 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32848 Okay... Okay…

]]> By: FutureTaoiseach http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32845 FutureTaoiseach Thu, 29 May 2008 03:11:36 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32845 As a no voter I find the divisions within the yes camp encouraging. As a no voter I find the divisions within the yes camp encouraging.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32842 Garibaldy Wed, 28 May 2008 23:10:09 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32842 I see from a WP press release that the 1937 constitution cost less than the price of a pint, while this treaty costs 42 Euro. Power to the people in an information age. I see from a WP press release that the 1937 constitution cost less than the price of a pint, while this treaty costs 42 Euro. Power to the people in an information age.

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32837 WorldbyStorm Wed, 28 May 2008 20:51:12 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32837 Cheers Alastair. I'm intrigued that you still think it's to play for. My natural pessimism tends to make me a bit negative about such things. I'm very unconvinced btw about any further significant changes in the mid-term. I think this is about as far as it should go for quite a while. Cheers Alastair. I’m intrigued that you still think it’s to play for. My natural pessimism tends to make me a bit negative about such things. I’m very unconvinced btw about any further significant changes in the mid-term. I think this is about as far as it should go for quite a while.

]]> By: alastair http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32834 alastair Wed, 28 May 2008 19:55:33 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32834 Gawd Robert, you need to tone down that 'We are Spartans!' guff. Firstly - The Irish have long been firmly established in continental european affairs and politics. Being born onto an arse-end island with precious few opportunities, and a prediliction for that great game - catholic service, led to a long standing engagement with all things euro - whether in the monastic, wild geese, or 'gallant allies in Europe' senses. The Irish have been europeans for a long long time (never mind the various scandanvians, normans, and spaniards who did their bit for european union on this island). Secondly - a review of the Lisbon treaty will disappoint if creeping federalism (or anything within a million miles of the US model) is your bugbear. The treaty doesn't commit the state to anything remotely interesting on the loss of sovereignty front, and if it's your cup of tea the nifty new 'We're taking our stuff and leaving' clause might give you pause to ponder. Thirdly - You might have had a compliment of Irish grannies and grandfathers, and might even qualify for a passport, but I'm guessing you chose the nationality you've been raised in and relate best to. Move on and embrace your own society, and let the people who actually live here decide what sort of europeans they want to be. I'm still confident of a Yes vote btw. The tepid nature of the treaty changes might keep a bunch of otherwise yes voters at home, and the yes campaign has been pretty poor, but I'm not convinced that the natural No camps and the protest voters comprise a strong enough block to see the day. Well done to the CL folk for the quality of editorial on this and the US election campaigns btw. Gawd Robert, you need to tone down that ‘We are Spartans!’ guff.

Firstly – The Irish have long been firmly established in continental european affairs and politics. Being born onto an arse-end island with precious few opportunities, and a prediliction for that great game – catholic service, led to a long standing engagement with all things euro – whether in the monastic, wild geese, or ‘gallant allies in Europe’ senses. The Irish have been europeans for a long long time (never mind the various scandanvians, normans, and spaniards who did their bit for european union on this island).

Secondly – a review of the Lisbon treaty will disappoint if creeping federalism (or anything within a million miles of the US model) is your bugbear. The treaty doesn’t commit the state to anything remotely interesting on the loss of sovereignty front, and if it’s your cup of tea the nifty new ‘We’re taking our stuff and leaving’ clause might give you pause to ponder.

Thirdly – You might have had a compliment of Irish grannies and grandfathers, and might even qualify for a passport, but I’m guessing you chose the nationality you’ve been raised in and relate best to. Move on and embrace your own society, and let the people who actually live here decide what sort of europeans they want to be.

I’m still confident of a Yes vote btw. The tepid nature of the treaty changes might keep a bunch of otherwise yes voters at home, and the yes campaign has been pretty poor, but I’m not convinced that the natural No camps and the protest voters comprise a strong enough block to see the day.

Well done to the CL folk for the quality of editorial on this and the US election campaigns btw.

]]> By: CL http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32833 CL Wed, 28 May 2008 18:42:16 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32833 Whichever way the vote goes it looks like Libertas will be well positioned to be an influential pro-U.S. right-wing force. Omega has had some problems with the EU and regulation before. This is from 1999- "The controversy over their hush system for aircraft engines finds the McEvaddy's caught in a bigger tussle, the commercial battle between Europe and the US over aircraft sales. The McEvaddy's have an enormous investment in the US-built Boeings and the Europeans are trying to make the Airbus's quiet engine the international standard." "Ulick's experience in military intelligence must have been a great door-opener when he dealt with the US and the armed forces of other countries. It is now 20 years since they established Omega Air, specialising in Boeing 707s, the workhorses of the aviation industry." Clearly any effort to control CO2 emissions has to be trans-national. McEvaddy's fleet of Boeing 707s are heavy emitters of CO2. Clearly its in McEvaddy's interest to weaken regulatory control. Likewise with Ganley and his telecommunication interests. Perhaps its time to follow the money and ignore the libertarian puffery. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brothers-with-altitude-400889.html Whichever way the vote goes it looks like Libertas will be well positioned to be an influential pro-U.S. right-wing force.
Omega has had some problems with the EU and regulation before. This is from 1999-
“The controversy over their hush system for aircraft engines finds the McEvaddy’s caught in a bigger tussle, the commercial battle between Europe and the US over aircraft sales. The McEvaddy’s have an enormous investment in the US-built Boeings and the Europeans are trying to make the Airbus’s quiet engine the international standard.”

“Ulick’s experience in military intelligence must have been a great door-opener when he dealt with the US and the armed forces of other countries. It is now 20 years since they established Omega Air, specialising in Boeing 707s, the workhorses of the aviation industry.”

Clearly any effort to control CO2 emissions has to be trans-national.
McEvaddy’s fleet of Boeing 707s are heavy emitters of CO2.
Clearly its in McEvaddy’s interest to weaken regulatory control. Likewise with Ganley and his telecommunication interests.
Perhaps its time to follow the money and ignore the libertarian puffery.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brothers-with-altitude-400889.html

]]> By: Ian http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-lisbon-campaign-falters-ever-onwards/#comment-32832 Ian Wed, 28 May 2008 18:17:20 +0000 http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1352#comment-32832 I think Robert said it all really! :) I think Robert said it all really! :)

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