Comments on: No? Yes? No! 35% anti-Lisbon Treaty, 30% pro-Lisbon Treaty…

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:37:26 +0000

Well, as I was saying to Gypsy, surely part of the reason is the small issue about national sovereignty and the right of all nations to order their electoral affairs as they see fit. Consequently it’s up to the Dutch and all other 26 to do it either in parliamentary votes or referendums, certainly not up to me to dictate what a nation should do.

By: Neko-

Neko- — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:51:48 +0000

As a dutch citizen I am one of the people that voted against the constitution 2 years ago. This time round we do not get any say in the matter and just have to accept the treaty on the word of our politicians.

Since they scrapped the ‘constitution’ word, a referendum isn’t needed to condone the ‘treaty’. Never mind that the actual contents of the document are 98% the same.

The EU started as an intent to economical cooperation between nations. Somewhere along the line politics got thrown into the mix, and by now it’s not about economical matters anymore. It’s evolved into a political prestige project. And it should go back to it’s basics… Just treaties to support economical cooperation!

I wish the people of Ireland wisdom in choosing their vote, but personally I hope with all my heart they will vote a resounding ‘No’ to the treaty.

For if the EU is meant to be so democratic… why don’t they let the people speak out their opinions on the treaty? Please… vote ‘No’!

By: Baudricourt

Baudricourt — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 04:55:33 +0000

@ WorldbyStorm
All Human is my brother !
http://policedumondeparodique.blogspot.com/2008/05/euro-maxima.html

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:53:55 +0000

very droll ESLaPorte. Particularly the ‘mobs’ bit. I really hope that’s a mistranslation.

By: ESLaPorte

ESLaPorte — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:27:45 +0000

I agree with the post of John Palmer. The neo-conseratives in Washington are scared-to-death of the Lisbon Treaty as it is seen as “undermining the transatlantic links.” The Lisbon Treaty could allow for a more independent-from-the US European foreign and security policy, which is something many have been hoping for…
and if the Irish mobs have their way, and there is a “no” vote, there only purpose .
BTW, the same neo-con ilk in Washington is the same ilk the belittles Europe. I would not be at all surprised if neo-con and American Republican Party activists are active in Europe and are behind the “no” vote campaign – and perhaps behind the election of Sarkozy.
The Lisbon Treaty will liberate Europe from the American ball and chain – and there must be some way to bring Lisbon into force even if their is a “no” vote out of Ireland.
The future of Europe must not be held to the Irish mob!

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:47:35 +0000

It’s just the language used in these contexts. Nothing terribly sinister ejh…

By: ejh

ejh — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:11:40 +0000

clarify and enhance EU competence, and enhance democratic oversight so that the Union would be better prepared for the challenges it faces in a world that is changing extremely rapidly

Have you been on a course?

By: Tomaltach

Tomaltach — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:51:19 +0000

Therese. But it is simply not true to argue that the Yes camp offer nothing but “owe them”. The arguements have been made repeatedly that Lisbon aimed to reform the institutions, clarify and enhance EU competence, and enhance democratic oversight so that the Union would be better prepared for the challenges it faces in a world that is changing extremely rapidly. The EU has spent 6 years on this reform while the world has moved on very quickly. Context is important. The industrial revolution which began in Europe and later propelled the US to a world Superpower has now belatedly caught on in Asia and other parts of the developing world. It is happening at lightening pace. Growth in the US and the EU as around one point something. It is closer to 10 (for a sustained period) in giant countries like China. I don’t want to sound like scaremongering but both American and Europe appear paralysed. Both need to sort themselves out and get on with facing the huge challenges that are already clear. Europe has made a pretty good in imperfect stab at reform to meet some of those challenges. But it cannot wait another 5 or 10 years.

By: Therese Gallagher

Therese Gallagher — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:16:43 +0000

If the deal is so good for Ireland, why can’t the government leaders and wannabe leaders bring anything else to the debate other than ‘they gave us money before, we kinda owe them this’?

Considering that the document is SO big, why is there so many gaps?
Gaps that apparently will be filled in post-acception of the treaty?????

I’m a lover of the EU but this smells funny.
If they want a ‘Yes’ vote, start being honest.I’ll be voting ‘NO’.

By: Gypsy

Gypsy — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:27:07 +0000

veryvert, after your message I decided to look up their website and according to that, they are still a member of the GUE-NGL. And I don’t see any sign of them being less lefty. Unless of course you read the following article differently. http://international.sp.nl/bericht/25849/080528-a_plea_to_the_irish_people_vote_no.html