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Dáil debate on Lisbon… and Sinn Féin’s ‘modest and achievable’ approach to the EU… June 18, 2008

Posted by WorldbyStorm in European Politics, European Union, Irish Politics.
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I only managed to catch the contributions to the Dáil debate on Lisbon from close to the end of Joan Burtons piece… her parting words? She had encountered a dynamic of concern about ‘foreign workers’ ‘…[while there was] some racism, that is ugly, but that is different from … people [who] are worried about the economy, their house and their job…’

John Gormley gave a spirited defence of the charter of fundamental rights and the provision regarding climate change. And he noted that it was this government which had been central to some of the aspects of it. But it was gloomy stuff and apologetic too, ‘…that was a message we couldn’t get out there…’.

He also suggested that Ireland was not neutral, but instead non-aligned ‘the same as the former neutrals in the Scandinavian countries’ and that this was recognised in the Treaty and was another ‘failure’ to communicate. He too pointed to an undercurrent of concern about immigration amongst a list of the ‘reasons why people decided to vote no, and some were absolutely valid and I respect that, but there was a level of misinformation out there that I haven’t experienced in the past’.

He considered Declan Ganley is on the ‘extreme-right’…and although he recognised that DG ‘…claims that he’s pro-Europe’ … ‘I have my doubts’.

Then came Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. Notable were the ‘modest and achievable’ list of changes he wanted that went on for a good couple of minutes, and the further ‘deeper and broader ambitions for the EU’. For those of us who read Mary Lou McDonald’s piece in the Irish Times today it was curiously familiar. No, no, it was almost identical with entire passages lifted verbatim. I wonder about the tone of it, particularly in regard to the advice to the government on how to negotiate. I’m not sure that’s going to play well with the broader public particularly if the mood darkens.

Dick Roche rather unwisely quoted from the report from the Irish Times on a purported Eurobarometer flash poll. Conor at Dublin Opinion has added up the figures and noted some basic problems. Now, I’d suspect that overall the thrust of the details of that poll are correct, not least because I heard from a third source independent of the Independent or the Irish Times that the figures were roughly correct.

Michael Mulcahy – I think it was – struck a sort of kind of euro-critical note, complaining about euro-elites and cliques of federalists including … John Bruton. But not entirely. He lavished Brian Cowen in praise. And so too did Cyprian Brady.

So it went. Every speech prefaced with some formula of words referencing ‘respect’. But what to say really? Only a few in that chamber (and it was striking how few there were other than those speaking) were going to be negotiating whatever happens next. Good thing? Bad thing? Representative democracy thing?

Perhaps we should look at McDonald’s list of demands in the Irish Times, but before that let’s consult the campaign leaflet from SF where the main points in summary on the back were as follows:

… a permanent EU Commissioner and maintain our voting strength… a specific article protecting neutrality… opt-outs ending financial support for nuclear power/EDA… taxation… exempting health and education from privatisation…protections for workers’ pay and conditions….

In today’s Irish Times she writes:

We focused on three sets of concerns.

Which are…

We argued [in the campaign] that the Lisbon Treaty would deepen the democratic deficit by removing Ireland’s permanent commissioner, reducing our voting strength at council, removing or weakening key strategic vetoes, such as on taxation and international trade, and by giving the European Council the power to amend the fundamental laws of the union. That the treaty was written and presented in an unintelligible form added an information deficit to the democratic deficit.

On militarisation, we argued that as well as taking the EU further down the road of developing common foreign and defence policies, Lisbon would promote militarisation and undermine the State’s neutrality.

We were also deeply worried that the treaty was designed to further open up vital public services such as health and education to competition and privatisation. This would have been complemented by the removal of key vetoes on the inclusion of health, education and social services in international trade agreements.

Sinn Féin also expressed deep disappointment with the failure of the drafters of the Lisbon Treaty to address workers’ rights and the continuing trend towards social dumping, aided and abetted by the European Court of Justice.

We also highlighted the negative impact of the treaty on the developing world and Ireland’s continued involvement in the European Atomic Energy Community.

It may be me, but that seems to be more than three sets of concerns.

Anyhow, Today Sinn Féin will submit to the Government a detailed position paper outlining proposed changes to the Lisbon Treaty. We are arguing for:

And they’re detailed. Indeed they are. For she continues:

• The retention of a permanent commissioner for all member states;

• The retention of the Nice Treaty formulae for qualified majority voting;

• The removal of all eight self-amending articles including the simplified revision procedure in Article 48;

• The removal of Article 46a giving the EU a single legal personality;

• A strengthened protocol on the role of member state parliaments;

• A significantly expanded protocol on the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality including the aims and values of the EU;

• Substantial amendments to aspects of the Common Foreign and Security Policy;

• Substantial amendments to the section of Common Defence and Security Policy;

• A new protocol on neutrality;

• A strengthened social clause;

• A substantially revised protocol on vital public services;

• Amendments to articles dealing with public services and state aid;

• The inclusion of the European Trade Union Confederation Social Progress Clause to protect workers’ rights;

• A protocol on Irish tax sovereignty;

• Substantial amendments on Article 188 dealing with international trade agreements including a cast-iron veto on mixed World Trade Organisation agreements;

• A new protocol ending Ireland’s participation in the European Atomic Energy Community;

• A series of amendments to Articles 10 and 188 promoting the needs of the developing world in the context of international trade.

Hmmm… no problem there then. Or as they suggest…

These are, in our opinion, modest and achievable. They represent both the detail of the better deal we argued for during the referendum campaign and what we believe to be the minimum changes required for any new treaty to be acceptable to the electorate.

That’s a big ask which arguably guts the Lisbon Treaty, and indeed many of the aspects that underpinned the Treaty. And that’s before we get to the issue of the unstated ‘amendments’ to CFSP and CDSP.

Even taking the line that some of that is negotiating fodder to be chucked overboard, and with SF that is not an unreasonable proposition, I wonder how realistic it is, at least in the context of Irish participation in the EU from here on in.

And how do they dovetail with Chairman Ganley’s list of demands which are – albeit vague – somewhat different? Indeed what of Chairman Ganley? How does he exercise leverage post-referendum. It will be interesting to see.

The ghost at the feast? Coir. Nothing at all from them, obviously. Which merely points up how elected political representation is essential even if only to get face time with the electorate.

This is going to run and run and run…

Comments»

1. Conor McCabe - June 18, 2008

WBS, regarding the poll in the IT today. Can you let me know, were those polled given possible answers as to why they voted no, or were the answers collated from responses?

2. WorldbyStorm - June 18, 2008

Apologies, I haven’t a clue Conor. I think that whoever leaked clearly incorrect figures, or misleading at the least, to the Indo did the same to the IT. But what I did hear that it was given, or came into the possession of a non public source and that they were told about the 2 to 1 agin in the younger voting cohorts. But, that doesn’t prove anything in particular. Perhaps all three, the IT, the Indo and those I know of, were sold a pup. It certainly could happen.

3. Conor McCabe - June 18, 2008

It just that, both the Indo and the IT had editorials saying vote yes, and now they’re both running with a bunch of (to date at least) unsubstantiated numbers with no explanation of methodology involved, claiming it to be a scientific poll which gives credence to the argument that the referendum should be run again as we have gone and voted no for the wrong reasons. I know it may seem like nit-picking, but if that is what is going on, then it should be highlighted.

I mean, I don’t know what the hell is going on with these figures, but the Indo told us that they came from a published report yesterday (untrue), and today the Times has a bunch of numbers which, quite literally, don’t add up! The whole thing is a mess, but one being passed off, in true Ron Burgandy fashion, as the truth.

now, personally I’d be amazed if any pollster gave people a series of reasons why they voted no, in a poll that’s supposed to find out WHY people voted no! It’s not something you’re supposed to do. It’s something a newspaper might do, or something that’s being put together as spin, but as far as finding out why people voted the way they did, the last thing you do is ask leading questions. It makes the findings worthless.

The commission have said they are still working on the report, so it’ll be interesting to see what they did, what methodologies they used, as well as, of course, the findings.

4. Cl - June 18, 2008

It appears that S.F. is now the opposition.
It will be interesting to see how Cowen and F.F. manoeuvre around this one.
Is the EU summit tomorrow open to the press or do we have to wait for the p.r. statements afterwards?

5. WorldbyStorm - June 19, 2008

No, I entirely agree Conor. I think what most likely happened is a staffer involved in the poll gave out info that was, at best dubious. I don’t place any credence in it and I agree with you the IT in particular shouldn’t have.

Cl, true to a degree re SF. But… listening to the debate yesterday it was clear both FG and Labour were nuancing their message to put water between them and FF. In any case, as with all things EU it’s only one issue. It’s absolutely of use to SF, but limited.

6. Pax - June 19, 2008

…running with a bunch of (to date at least) unsubstantiated numbers with no explanation of methodology involved…

I agree with Conor’s post above. There’s just something of the “Judith Millers” about the IT and the Indo’s line over the last week. The IT was laughably biased during the campaign, and misrepresented No arguments throughout. Having said that none of this should be surprising from the MSM but it is instructive (if unseemly) when the mask very visibly slips. Pravda be shamed.

7. WorldbyStorm - June 20, 2008

Bottom line is that if they can’t even fact check their own writings, excluding the data they’re given from whatever source, it’s pathetic and simply shouldn’t happen.

8. Conor McCabe - June 20, 2008

The Eurobarometer poll has just been released. Sure enough, it gave possible answers to its respondents. however, with regard to false reporting, the EU Baromenter states that just 1% of Irish people saw immigration as a factor in their choosing to vote no. So, regardless of the methodology used, the reports in the national press, along with John Waters’ piece today in the Times, just go to show the pathetic standards of Irish investigative journalism.

They can’t even get their spin correct.

9. WorldbyStorm - June 20, 2008

Only 1%, how interesting (I’m thinking that will cause consternation for a number of posters over at P.ie who are convinced the No vote was a pure anti-immigration vote). That certainly holes those stories under the waterline. Cheers Conor… do you have a link?

10. Conor McCabe - June 20, 2008

I do, but it’s going to end up in your spam so I’ll post it after this.

Interesting thing on the Irish Times figures.

They said:

Preliminary results from EU Commission post-referendum poll

Why did you vote no? (only one option)

Dont understand /not familiar 40%
Protect Irish identity 20%
Dont trust politicians/Govt policies 17%
Protect neutrality 10%
Keep commissioner 10%
Protect tax system 8%

The actual figures from the barometer for reasons why people voted no:

Don’t understand/not familiar – 22%
Protect Irish identity – 12%
Safeguard Irish neutrality – 6%
Do not trust our politians – 6%
we will lose our right to a commissioner – 6%
protect tax system – 6%
against idea of unified Europe – 5%
protest against government policies – 4%
to avoid that EU speaks with one voice on global issues – 4%
because large member states decide EU matters – 4%
tp protect influence of small states – 3%
it will allow abortion/gay marriage/euthanasia – 2%
avoid influx of immigrants – 1%
the EU works fine, no need for change – 1%
other – 14%
DK7NA – 3%

The Irish Times didn’t get one bloody figure right. They were out by miles.

I mean, simply in terms of reporting the facts, the Irish Times couldn’t even do that.

11. Conor McCabe - June 20, 2008
12. Donagh - June 20, 2008

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/flash/fl_245_en.pdf

It was up on Irish Election earlier and its at the top of Chekov’s review of the Lisbon Treaty campaign and its aftermath over at ILR:
http://www.irishleftreview.org/2008/06/20/lisbon-treaty-campaign-ireland-review/

13. Donagh - June 20, 2008

Opps… You’re fast Conor, bloody fast.

14. Conor McCabe - June 20, 2008

It’s Friday night and I’m reading European polls. I need a girlfriend.

15. WorldbyStorm - June 21, 2008

Thanks guys for that. I’d say the results will have the govt. scratching its collective head even more. I mean, how to keep everyone sweet? Interesting how the ‘religious’ axis issues are so minimal percentage wise.

16. Conor McCabe - June 21, 2008

The polls show that the gov. and the yes side fucked this up. And Europe knows it. Peter Mandleson has even come out and said it. But, Cowen and his carvery crowd aren’t going to admit that, so we’ll have them looking around for a reason to pin this one on. and that’s going to be tough ‘cos there aint one there. Even Cowen’s list of excuses – including a downturn in the economy and fears about immigration – don’t figure on the Barometer.

The government spent five months campaigning for Bertie, and four weeks campaigning for a yes vote. And when they did get started on their campaign, what’s the first thing Cowen did? He attacked the yes side. Looking back on it, what’s amazing is not that they lost, but that they managed to get 46%

Anyway, Cowen might be saved from thinking of excuses by the Czech courts. If not, it’s Lisbon mark II next Spring.

17. WorldbyStorm - June 21, 2008

It certainly seems to be that way…