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	<title>Comments on: That&#8217;s one slow moving ceasefire we&#8217;ve got here.</title>
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	<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/</link>
	<description>For Lefties too Stubborn to Quit</description>
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		<title>By: WorldbyStorm</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35266</link>
		<dc:creator>WorldbyStorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35266</guid>
		<description>Well that&#039;s true Ian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that&#8217;s true Ian.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35264</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35264</guid>
		<description>Wednesday, 
Apologies, I meant the Abkhazians aren&#039;t mad on the Russians. It all gets a bit confusing sometimes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wednesday,<br />
Apologies, I meant the Abkhazians aren&#8217;t mad on the Russians. It all gets a bit confusing sometimes!</p>
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		<title>By: WorldbyStorm</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35257</link>
		<dc:creator>WorldbyStorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35257</guid>
		<description>Yes, that question struck me too Wednesday. I&#039;d have thought that they were very enamoured with the Russians.

Oddly enough talking about police retaining their command structures I was looking up - as one does - Transnistria today. A most interesting couple of wiki pages gave amazing detail on the War of Transnistria and how the police forces were centrally involved. That said, am I wrong in thinking that we&#039;re talking about fairly militarised police forces in these contexts?

Don&#039;t get me wrong Mark P, I&#039;m aware of how contingent such things are... but... it&#039;s fascinating to see the theory bend under the pressure of the real. Incidentally I&#039;m not sure that international law is entirely meaningless, even if only to hold up as an aspirational standard. And work it does on that level, although imperfectly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that question struck me too Wednesday. I&#8217;d have thought that they were very enamoured with the Russians.</p>
<p>Oddly enough talking about police retaining their command structures I was looking up &#8211; as one does &#8211; Transnistria today. A most interesting couple of wiki pages gave amazing detail on the War of Transnistria and how the police forces were centrally involved. That said, am I wrong in thinking that we&#8217;re talking about fairly militarised police forces in these contexts?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong Mark P, I&#8217;m aware of how contingent such things are&#8230; but&#8230; it&#8217;s fascinating to see the theory bend under the pressure of the real. Incidentally I&#8217;m not sure that international law is entirely meaningless, even if only to hold up as an aspirational standard. And work it does on that level, although imperfectly.</p>
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		<title>By: Wednesday</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35256</link>
		<dc:creator>Wednesday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35256</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They don’t seem too enamoured with the Russians either.&lt;/i&gt;

Basis for this comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>They don’t seem too enamoured with the Russians either.</i></p>
<p>Basis for this comment?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark P</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35254</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35254</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;But really, if the rule book on self-determination and sovereignty is being torn up perhaps it would do us all a service if there were some clearly enunciated principles rather than this opportunist mish-mash of ‘we’ll certainly, definitely, positively leave now… or tomorrow’.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;Self determination and sovereignty&quot; have only ever existed to the extent that it suits great powers to play word games, or to the extent that they can be enforced with guns. There are no rules or principles beyond that and there never has been. It&#039;s like anything else connected to that meaningless term &quot;international law&quot;, meaningless.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;democracy promotion&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

An Orwellian euphemism if ever there was one. It means funding Western stooges, both on the political scene and amongst the plethora of useless NGOs this part of the world seems to be overflowing with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;But really, if the rule book on self-determination and sovereignty is being torn up perhaps it would do us all a service if there were some clearly enunciated principles rather than this opportunist mish-mash of ‘we’ll certainly, definitely, positively leave now… or tomorrow’.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>&#8220;Self determination and sovereignty&#8221; have only ever existed to the extent that it suits great powers to play word games, or to the extent that they can be enforced with guns. There are no rules or principles beyond that and there never has been. It&#8217;s like anything else connected to that meaningless term &#8220;international law&#8221;, meaningless.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;democracy promotion&#8221;</i></p>
<p>An Orwellian euphemism if ever there was one. It means funding Western stooges, both on the political scene and amongst the plethora of useless NGOs this part of the world seems to be overflowing with.</p>
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		<title>By: skidmarx</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35253</link>
		<dc:creator>skidmarx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35253</guid>
		<description>Part of the reason the Abkhaz may have been down to 18% may have been due to Stalin deporting Abkhaz and replacing them with Georgians. That&#039;s just a speculation.

&quot;And no doubt a similar process is in train inside Georgia proper against those identified with South Ossetia.&quot;

I get the impression that part of the Russian activity btween Gori and South Ossetia has been to let loose Ossetian irregulars to loot Georgian villages. All under the guise of &quot;peace-keeping&quot; and even better &quot;restoring law and order&quot;.

The BBC News were saying &quot;the ceasefire appears fragile&quot;. Hmm. Perhaps &quot;the ceasefire is having an existential crisis&quot;.

The Russian troops who&#039;d started driving round in circles when they left Gori did seem a bit like the Wolfe Tones song
# We&#039;re on the one road, sharing the one load
   We&#039;re on the road to God Knows where
   It may be the right road, it may be the wrong road
  But we&#039;re together now who cares? #</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the reason the Abkhaz may have been down to 18% may have been due to Stalin deporting Abkhaz and replacing them with Georgians. That&#8217;s just a speculation.</p>
<p>&#8220;And no doubt a similar process is in train inside Georgia proper against those identified with South Ossetia.&#8221;</p>
<p>I get the impression that part of the Russian activity btween Gori and South Ossetia has been to let loose Ossetian irregulars to loot Georgian villages. All under the guise of &#8220;peace-keeping&#8221; and even better &#8220;restoring law and order&#8221;.</p>
<p>The BBC News were saying &#8220;the ceasefire appears fragile&#8221;. Hmm. Perhaps &#8220;the ceasefire is having an existential crisis&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Russian troops who&#8217;d started driving round in circles when they left Gori did seem a bit like the Wolfe Tones song<br />
# We&#8217;re on the one road, sharing the one load<br />
   We&#8217;re on the road to God Knows where<br />
   It may be the right road, it may be the wrong road<br />
  But we&#8217;re together now who cares? #</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/thats-one-slow-moving-ceasefire-weve-got-here/#comment-35252</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/?p=1896#comment-35252</guid>
		<description>I must say I&#039;m impressed with the Georgian police. Having watched them on news reports the last few days, they often seem to be the only form of state authority around in these occupied areas. The military, in contrast, seem to be drunk on the side of the road or not even around. 

I don&#039;t think enough attention has been paid to the ethnic national claims of the Ossetians? They don&#039;t seem too enamoured with the Russians either.

As for the Abkhaz, is it tenable to give a nation state status to a territory which doesn&#039;t even have an ethnic majority in its own zone? Before the 1990 war, only 18% of Abkhazia was Abkhaz, and today its still a mere 45%.  And still, this is only 45% of 200,000 people! Abkhazian identity seems weak to be honest. I mean, of course there is no perfect standard to judge the merits of a nations claims to self-determination, but I don&#039;t think Abkhazia warrants the humiliation of Georgian sovereignty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say I&#8217;m impressed with the Georgian police. Having watched them on news reports the last few days, they often seem to be the only form of state authority around in these occupied areas. The military, in contrast, seem to be drunk on the side of the road or not even around. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think enough attention has been paid to the ethnic national claims of the Ossetians? They don&#8217;t seem too enamoured with the Russians either.</p>
<p>As for the Abkhaz, is it tenable to give a nation state status to a territory which doesn&#8217;t even have an ethnic majority in its own zone? Before the 1990 war, only 18% of Abkhazia was Abkhaz, and today its still a mere 45%.  And still, this is only 45% of 200,000 people! Abkhazian identity seems weak to be honest. I mean, of course there is no perfect standard to judge the merits of a nations claims to self-determination, but I don&#8217;t think Abkhazia warrants the humiliation of Georgian sovereignty.</p>
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