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Checks and truth. The most generous welfare payments in Europe… reprise… June 17, 2009

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Economy, Irish Politics.
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You’ve got to hand it to Sarah Carey.

For she has decided to deal with her comments earlier this year where she asserted that Ireland had the most generous social welfare payments in Europe, a point she made at the time in order to demonstrate that the state spending was extravagant and – presumably – unnecessary.

But let me allow her to make her own case(s)…

BACK IN March, I wrote a column about taxation. I argued that the overwhelming political consensus that resulted in exchequer overdependence on indirect taxation over direct taxation was unjust and insane. Unjust because indirect taxation is regressive and insane because its revenues collapse at the first sign of trouble.

In it, I mentioned that Ireland has the most generous social welfare payments in Europe. This isn’t true at all and I most humbly apologise for leading Irish Times readers into error. Apart from that I’m rather pleased I made the mistake because it has opened up a rather interesting hornet’s nest.

She doesn’t really tell us much about the hornet’s nest, which is a pity. I’d certainly like to hear more.

So how did this ‘error’ happen? Let us further appraise her mea culpa.

In researching the article, I’d asked the Department of Finance to provide me with statistics on the distribution of taxation payments. Their briefing document consisted mostly of hard numbers with some political arguments thrown in.

One bullet point read: “Although it may be of little comfort for those living on social welfare, Irish social welfare rates are among the highest in the EU.”

Go on…

I read, internalised, mangled and then regurgitated the line a few days later. By omitting “among” I made a grievous error. My bad, as they say. However, it has been drawn to my attention that not only was I incorrect to say that our payments are the most generous, but they are not even “among” the most generous.

If that’s true, not only was I wrong, but the department is wrong too.

Perish the thought. A government department being wrong…

There’s something odd about this, though. And that’s because it’s not quite the explanation she gave to Donagh on the Irish Left Review some while back.

There she initially argued that the information she received from the Department was ‘clear’ and that it stated that they were the ‘most’ generous. It was only in a subsequent communication that she admitted that ‘perhaps’ she had ‘used one misplaced word’…

I look forward to Donagh’s take on all this.

But for she now seeks safety in numbers… it’s not just our Johnny (or Sarah) who was out of step with the rest of the marching soldiers… oh no, this was contagious. They were all moving in the wrong directions…

Before and since I wrote that column, variations on the phrase have appeared with increasing regularity from other commentators and politicians. Either everyone has managed to come to the same conclusion because the statement is true or because we’ve all been soundly spun. If it’s the latter, then the boys in the department’s press office are very good at disseminating possibly incorrect information.

Yes. I like the ‘possibly’…

Still, what of this?

In making the claim, the department is implicitly suggesting that since social welfare rates are extremely generous, then having them cut will be no great loss. Those on the self-proclaimed left hotly dispute the accuracy of the statement. Membership of the right is never proclaimed – it’s an accusation rather than a boast. The left says that we are way down the EU tables and are actually quite parsimonious with our payments. Their implicit argument is that the payments should be preserved at their current rate, irrespective of how close we get to national bankruptcy.

Well disregarding her, as we’ve previously noted, idiosyncratic understanding of political categories it’s entertaining to see her in the first sentence attribute to the Department something that was actually a characteristic of her own use of the information in the original piece. And it’s also interesting to see that at no point does she reference examples of this ‘spinning’ that she potentially ascribes to the Department (again, perish the thought that perhaps the notion that we have ‘generous’ social welfare rates was a pre-existing myth circulating amongst the great and the good in our society and commentariat).

The woes of the newspaper columnist are many and this forces her to grapple with the issue…

So, is the statement “amongst the highest in the EU” true or not? Enter the two-handed economist. On the one hand, when tables showing lists of payments in the EU15 are examined, we are near the bottom for some payments such as unemployment benefit and midway or above average for others. On the other hand, the tables themselves are almost impossible to compile fairly and what’s “EU” anyway? The 15 or the 27? It’s extremely difficult to measure the true benefit of a payment when wage levels, costs of living, quality of public services and the point of my original column – amount of tax paid – are taken into account. How do you compare free travel, free TV licence, subsidised telephone bills and the pension for OAPs in Ireland with pension payments in Germany? It’s almost impossible.

Actually, it’s not. It’s not at all impossible, although it is a bit time consuming.

Sure, there may be some variations and variability – local factors may skew things a bit – but somehow when representing economic statistics across a range of states commentators and institutions from the OECD down manage to do it – otherwise how does she explain the fact that we are so readily able to have a world engaged in globalisation, international finance, or indeed the operation of the EU which remarkably appears to function with 27, count ‘em 27, different members, so I think it’s reasonable to argue that we (and she) can attempt to make some reasonable comparisons. We can also, as a rule of thumb argue that,; for example even if payments were higher in this state say than the UK, the broader provision of services there on the health/etc side would vastly outweigh those available here. And perhaps inevitably even she is pushed towards this conclusion…

Forced to make a call, I’d say the department’s interpretation of the facts is what might be generously described as “loose” and they should stop making the claim unless they can convincingly back it up.

Yeah. Well there’s a surprise.

Anyone else who makes the same claim because they read it somewhere – say, in a column in The Irish Times – should stop making it too.

But…

However, I’d go one further. The department should stop making the claim not just because it’s wrong, but because it’s irrelevant. The French, the Swedes, the Germans and the Italians aren’t paying our bills – yet. We have to raise sufficient money through taxation or borrowing for what we believe is essential spending. It’s up to us to define “essential”.

Even if we had the highest payments in Europe, that is no argument to cut them and if we had the lowest, it’s no reason to raise them. Other countries have different political cultures, taxation systems and levels of public services. They also have different balance sheets. There are only two factors relevant to what Ireland should pay its citizens in social welfare – what we can afford and what we think is the amount necessary to cover a person’s basic costs.

Both of these are entirely subjective and a matter of political economy rather than mere economics. Should a minimum family income cover the cost of a Sky subscription, the mortgage on the family home or meat just once a week? Working out what we can and can’t afford is a debate taking place in every home and in every government department and the price of bananas in Belgium is neither here nor there.

Last year, we could afford the early childcare supplement – this year we can’t. Apparently, we can’t afford special needs assistants, but we can afford to recapitalise Anglo Irish. One person’s injustice is another’s pragmatism. The winner of the argument is quite simply the one who happens to be in power. Right now, that power lies in Merrion Street. As harsh as the current regime might seem, the imperative is to prevent that power shifting to Frankfurt or Washington DC. That has to be our focus now and yearning for some other country’s welfare system is a waste of time.

With one thrust the Gordian knot is cut. She may have been ‘mistaken’.. but it doesn’t matter! Because we can only ‘afford’ what we can ‘afford’.

But while I agree in part with that point, it being self-evident, I’m less impressed by its use as a conceptual scorched earth policy wherein being wrong and disseminating incorrect information is but a trifle… Because, she only mentioned the idea in the first place in the context of the following statement:

Of course, there are few specifics. I have no idea what “middle-income” means. Most Irish people claim to be middle class, so presumably they labour under the illusion of earning “middle incomes” too.

I do know that almost 40 per cent of the 2.4 million income earners in the State are entirely exempt from income tax and that every party thinks this number should be increased.

When asked who should pay tax so that there’s enough money to fund the most generous social welfare payments in the EU, we are back to – you’ve guessed it – the tax exiles. Of course, that’s hardly surprising. Tax exiles don’t vote and the 900,000 exempted earners do.

Mmm… as a leftist I think that’s a parody of the viewpoint I hold whereby I believe services and welfare should be funded by all from general taxation including income taxes and including increased taxation for all. Not because I like increased taxation but because I tend to follow the old dictum that there’s no such thing as a free lunch and that we can’t get what we don’t spend. Sadly I’ve lived in a polity where for the last fifteen or so years the opposite has been the credo of the political classes high on growth and convinced that lower taxation was the only way to go. But this isn’t about me…

None of this is in a self-contained bubble either. She may not believe in multiplier effects, or indeed in the fiscal stimulus effects that operate for the unemployed or those on low incomes, but other states and economies clearly do. Big states. Although if we take her line there’s no point in making comparisons.

Still, away from her new-found Year Zero approach to inconvenient facts, in all other matters we do take cognisance of comparatives between states, and more particularly between our nearest partners in Europe. And so indeed does the government and business in relation to wage levels, standards of living and so forth. It’s basic stuff, it’s entirely necessary. We need yardsticks, we need standards, we need goals. It is central to any analysis both of our own structures and possible alternatives. And the idea that we can simply ignore or resile from these is an absurdity – not least because we still remain in global, and arguably in European terms, a rather wealthy country.

While you’re thinking about that, think about this, from the president of the Irish Taxation Institute comes an interesting snippet

Another surprising finding of the survey relates to public perception of the burden of income tax in Ireland. In 2006, the last time the Irish Taxation Institute National Tax Survey was conducted, 53 per cent of respondents felt the personal tax burden in Ireland was high compared with the rest of Europe.

That figure has dropped to 50 per cent in the 2009 survey, even though we’ve seen significant increases in taxation in the two emergency budgets in October 2008 and April 2009.

In fact, the reality is quite different. Some 18 per cent of respondents to our 2009 poll correctly hold the view that our income tax burden is typically lower than the rest of Europe (again, surprisingly, an increase from the 11 per cent result in 2006). Prior to October 2008, the personal tax burden in Ireland was quite low in terms of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation Development (OECD) average.

While the tax burden has increased in the wake of the recent changes, the tax burden in Ireland is still below the OECD average. In fact, despite recent budget tax hikes, Ireland – along with New Zealand, Korea and Mexico – has one of the lowest tax burdens in the industrialised world, according to figures from the OECD.

That’s another inconvenient truth which we hear little of.

But Carey’s point is one which clearly positions the idea of the ‘most generous’ social welfare payments as yet another unreasonable expense pushed onto the ‘hard-working middle-income’ earners.

And that’s a specifically political argument she seeks to make, and while sure, as I’ve noted affordability enters into the equation so too does the structure of our economy, the nature of that society and the amount we are willing to see taken in taxation (in all its myriad forms) to provide services/welfare. She I suspect holds a different view from me as to where the dial should be set on those matters. That’s fine, it’s a perfectly legitimate viewpoint, but in all her columns she seems strangely hesitant to simply come out and say it, that she doesn’t want a more Central and Northern European model to be followed with higher personal taxation and more public services/welfare and that instead she prefers a low tax lower provision model. Indeed look back at the column which initiated all this and you’ll see that she was keen to charge almost everyone – as far as I can see – with some degree of guilt. That’s an intriguing approach and allied with the aforementioned hesitancy perhaps worth of consideration another day.

Incidentally, entertaining at this remove, to read the opening paragraph of her original article…

“SURE THEY’RE all the same,” goes the bitter refrain. The funny thing is, I’ve checked and it’s true. A comparison of each party’s 2007 manifestos reveals remarkably similar policies, especially on taxation – the bedrock of the economy. Sinn Féin’s are the best written and the Green Party’s have some peculiar extras, but by and large they are the same.

Comments»

1. Donagh - June 17, 2009

I look forward to Donagh’s take on all this.

I’m working on it

“…again, perish the thought that perhaps the notion that we have ‘generous’ social welfare rates was a pre-existing myth circulating amongst the great and the good in our society and commentariat).”

She says in her column that she only changed one word from the Depts copy, omitting ‘among’. This does not show a great grasp of how sentences are constructed.

She changed “are among the highest in the EU” to ‘the most generous in the EU’. She then goes on to say “However, it has been drawn to my attention that not only was I incorrect to say that our payments are the most generous, but they are not even “among” the most generous.”

She clearly has no problem thinking about social welfare payments in terms of ‘generosity’ in the first place, like they’re hand-outs to bums.

But consider this, a columnist in the ‘paper of record’ is accusing the Dept of Finance of willfully spreading false information. Heavy.

2. WorldbyStorm - June 17, 2009

Hmmm… that’s a heck of a change from what you were told to today’s cri de coeur.

3. Conor McCabe - June 18, 2009

Haven seen the so-called “briefing document” she mentions in her latest article, I look forward to its unedited publication so as to show the level of complete and utter bullshit she is spouting. I can’t believe she is actually getting away with the sense of magnanimity being bestowed on her shoulders. (I don’t mean here but in conversations with friends of mine etc.)

This woman is a bully, from a family of bullies (just have a read of her “daddy’s seat” article).

4. Hugh Green - June 18, 2009

Re ‘Daddy’s Seat’: this appeared in the current edition of Village – by Frank Connolly.

Many of the elected councillors who have engaged in these deeply dubious practices will be knocking on the doors of their constituents looking to return to office in the coming weeks. Even more outrageously, many county and city councils across the country include members who work full time as auctioneers or estate agents, and whose personal wealth has been considerably enhanced by decisions made by themselves or their elected colleagues. In some cases senior officials or former officials in a number of areas have personally benefited from deisions made at their recommendation.

Take the small town of Longwood in County Meath where only a few weeks ago shocked residents were informed that local councillors had agreed to run a new road through the Ribbontail Way estate and to open up adjoining lands for residential development. At a meeting with thirty angry residents early in May, William Carey (FG), supported by Seamus Murray (FF), defended the amendment to the local area plan which will benefit local landowners and quarry owners the Keegan family and building company Shelester Ltd. Councillor Carey had argued before the amendment was passed that residents wanted the additional road access to the estate.

In fact, all the residents of Ribbontail Way had signed a petition against the new road and the building of any new houses until the necessary amenities were in place. The Meath county manager had argued against the amendment and said there was enough land zoned for a further 180 houses in Longwood. Only councillor Philip Cantwell (Ind), on behalf of the residents, opposed the amendment at the council meeting.

5. Bartholomew - June 18, 2009

Sarah Carey’s relationship with facts is about as random as that of John Waters. It was summed up on the Pat Kenny show a few months ago, after she had written an article saying that Gaelscoils were a middle-class fad. She was on the programme with a woman from the Gaelscoils who went through a list of their schools, pointing out that they were in South Hill, Ballymun, Tallaght etc. Carey’s answer was (the first seven words are verbatim): ’So why do my friends tell me’ that they are a middle-class phenomenon. When facts collide with her friends’ opinions, and presumably her own, the result is cognitive dissonance.

6. smiffy - June 18, 2009

She’s right on one level: how social welfare payments compare with similar payments across Europe is not particularly relevant to whether they should be increased, retained at existing levels or decreased.

Of course, the fact that this was equally true when she was spouting off about Irish payments being the most generous in Europe seems to have escaped her. Some might suggest that she’s starting with with the conclusion that social welfare is too high, and working backwards to justify it, but that seems to me to be a very cynical interpretation.

7. WorldbyStorm - June 18, 2009

;) ‘cynical interpretation’.

Bartholomew… that’s brilliant. I’d missed that… ah sure, she’s the FG equivalent of… er… Dev, looking into her address book every time she needs to know how the Irish people feel about a given topic.

8. Paddy Matthews - June 18, 2009

We shouldn’t be too hard on someone who spent the last election campaign trying to persuade the voters of Meath West that the solution to their problems was Graham Geraghty TD.

In those innocent days before McGuirk-Simons Mediocrity Deathmatch, it added to the gaiety of the nation.

9. WorldbyStorm - June 18, 2009

Ah yes, and I hope to be returning to that issue soon Paddy…

10. Hanora Brennan - June 21, 2009

Surely it’s the paper she represents that should be villified. Why are they printing the inaccuracies and not checking facts are facts prior to publication?

11. WorldbyStorm - June 21, 2009

That’s not an unfair point, they should shoulder some of the blame. But i guess since it’s comment on her part they might be more tolerant (or less critical, in the broad sense of the term).

12. ejh - June 21, 2009

I think the answer – or part of it – is that newspapers on this side of the Atlantic don’t tend to employ fact-checkers.

13. WorldbyStorm - June 21, 2009

That too is a fair point. Of course all the accuracy in the world won’t necessary get to the heart of a matter, etc…

14. Crocodile - June 21, 2009

Sarah Carey was quite a competent blogger who has been promoted above her competence. Her ‘GUBU’ blog made it quite clear who her ‘friends’ were: they include Denis O’Brien ( for whom she worked ), the Irish people behind search engine ‘Cuil’ and right wing economist Marc Coleman. She was hardly hired by the IT, then, to be the new Dick Walsh.
Another irony of her piece is that she was much given – like other right wing commentors – to pointing out that nurses, teachers, doctors etc in Ireland were overpaid because they earned more than their counterparts in other countries. Now, apparently, such comparisons are odious, because it’s a question only of what Ireland Inc can afford.
Come back to me, Sarah, looking for pay cuts when rent, property prices, groceries etc are at the levels they are in Athens, Lisbon or even Paris.

15. WorldbyStorm - June 21, 2009

Yeah, exactly right Crocodile.

16. We need to cut social welfare - Page 37 - Politics.ie - October 18, 2009

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