The Cedar Lounge Revolution

Hot Press interviews Martin Mansergh of Fianna Fáil June 18, 2009

Today’s issue of Hot Press has a revealing interview by Jason O’Toole with Martin Mansergh. I’ve mentioned before how at one point I was quite impressed by the good Junior Minister (at the Department of Finance no less), but things changed… anyhow… what’s in the interview? Well, here are some choice cuts, as the saying has it…

Wasn’t it a strategically bad idea to bring in the 1% levy only days before an election? Surely that lost Fianna Fail votes?
The government has taken the view for some time now that you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb! The situation is simply too pressing to be taking a lot of short-term considerations into account. You hear people saying at party meetings, ‘Why didn’t you leave the announcement about the Christmas bonus until July?’ The answer to that – and I would have quite a strong view on this – is you should not hold up bad news, as there’s few more certain ways of destroying trust. We do deserve some credit – even if we’re punished for it – for doing to the best of our ability what needs to be done in what is a fairly horrendous economic situation, which almost nobody really foresaw.

But wasn’t the scrapping of the Christmas bonus for the unemployed just mean?
You’ve got a large and growing social welfare budget. The alternative was to cut rates. If the choice was between cutting rates and cutting the Christmas bonus, then it was probably better to do the latter. I would naturally much prefer that it wouldn’t be necessary to do it. The Christmas bonus was cut for two or three years in the 1980s. Certainly, I would see it as something that would be restored in the future.

Okay… continue… here’s an interesting admission…

But the shenanigans we’re only learning about now – particularly in the banking sector – happened during Bertie’s watch. Surely some of the blame falls on his shoulders?
Yes, of course, in hindsight it wasn’t rigorous enough. Mind you, any sort of rigour in those times would have been highly unpopular. That is a criticism that can be made. I’ll just make the point: with the benefit of hindsight some people might say – and correctly – that we were not rigorous enough in dampening down the construction boom, even to some extent. But I don’t accept the idea that the government were the only players in that. Look at all those property supplements. We are being criticised by newspapers which are now in many incidences in considerable financial difficulties because they are no longer getting the income from the heightening of property that took place. The guide prices were very often way off the mark and, so I am told, the results of the prices were quite often manipulated. The print media played a very big part in the unsustainable property boom.

Never! Conor and Donagh at Dublin Opinion have argued this for years now, but isn’t it telling to hear it from a Government Minister.

Coming from an Anglo-Irish background, did you ever feel discriminated against in Irish politics?
Yes, of course, I’ve had my share of sticks and stones. Yes, people can sometimes make derogatory remarks about one’s background. But look at Bertie – was he ever discriminated against because of his background and accent? Perhaps yes. If you look at everybody’s situation, your political opponents will make the maximum of your weak points and vulnerabilities. And you try to make the most of your positives. Of course, there may have been whispers on the campaign trail about being an absentee English landlord or something! Incidentally, you can’t be a member of the Oireachtas without being an Irish citizen. I remember once going into Charlie Haughey and there was a serious calumny circulating about me and I mentioned it to him. He just looked at me and smiled and said, ‘Join the club!’

Indeed…

Some useful insight into the political analysis of the Government…and him too…

You played a significant role in the Peace Process. Is it true that there was some surprise amongst Unionists at your arrival as part of Fianna Fail’s delegation?
I think they may have been. You see, people who don’t fit into stereotypes can make life more (pauses)… I have to say that my bigger role in the Peace Process would have been in the dialogue with Republicans, rather than the dialogue with the Unionists. People have – not just Unionists but also quite a few journalists in this city – stereotyped views about where politically one might ought to be. In other words, they deduce your politics from your background. Just to come back to Unionism – I had a great, great uncle who was a Colonel Mansergh, from Cork, who served in the British Army. He retired to Warrenpoint where he became secretary of the Ulster Unionists Association back in the early years of the 20th Century. He’d get up on platforms and say Home Rule would be disastrous for Ireland. For which my comment is: we’ll never really know (laughs) because we never had Home Rule. The one place that did have it – Northern Ireland – was, certainly in its first 50 years, undoubtedly a bit of a disaster (laughs).

And, naturally, quite a bit on the Peace Process.

What are your thoughts on [the] role [of Gerry Adams]?
Obviously, to bring the provisional movement with him intact was a very difficult and tricky exercise involving a lot of diplomacy. Unfortunately, diplomats – and I was once a diplomat myself – do tend, when talking to different groups, to emphasise the aspects of things which will appeal to whoever you’re talking to. His criticism of De Valera in the 1920s would be: ‘Yes, we went into constitutional politics, but he didn’t bring all of the IRA with him’. Probably, it’s fair to say that – despite their best efforts – Adams and McGuinness haven’t brought all of the IRA with them. They brought the mainstream Provisional IRA but there are splinter groups out there trying to, if you like, challenge that. Maybe that was a virtually impossible task. But I’m strongly of the view – notwithstanding all of the frustrations felt with long drawn up negotiations – that Ireland is very fortunate in the leadership it had of what, as they call themselves, the Republican Movement. If you look around the world – Sri Lanka, the Palestinian situation, the Basque country – there are very few leaderships of the calibre of Adams and McGuinness.

As ever there’s more and it’s actually a very entertaining piece. I think I like him a little better perhaps after reading this.