The Cedar Lounge Revolution

Interview with Martin Mansergh… May 22, 2010

Jason O’Toole has an interview with Mansergh in today’s Mail… it’s quite interesting to be honest, not least because Mansergh was so heavily identified with the ancien regime (perhaps in more ways than one) and times have, as most will have noticed, changed.

So how does our Minister for Floods feel now, listening to his [former] lord and master [Bertie Ahern] harping on recently about how the downturn in the economy had nothing to do with him? That this country of ours wasn’t in recession when he resigned as Taoiseach? Isn’t this ‘no blood on my hands’ declaration a bit rich – simply preposterous, in fact? ‘If you want to criticise my former boss, get somebody else to do it. Let’s put it like this, history might take a more nuanced view,’ he laughs. But he then adds: ‘He’s obviously responsible for the decisions taken during his period of Government and, I suppose, all of us who supported the Government – and I include myself in this – we were perhaps guilty of over-optimism about the sustainability of what we had.

And…

The 63-year-old Tipperary TD says, however, that he has ‘no regrets’ about his public backing of the disgraced ex-Taoiseach over his unorthodox financial affairs, the matter which forced Ahern to resign. ‘I believe in being loyal to the people I’ve worked with and who I know personally when they’re being grossly caricatured and misrepresented. ‘I take the view that his messy personal finances during ’94 are of minor importance. Also, for reasons of tactic and diplomacy, this was underplayed a bit, I think his particular marital situation at the time – early stages of separation, and being a cabinet minister – it’s more than likely his separation settlement was relatively on the expensive side.’ He pauses to laugh at this latter comment. But surely he must have thought at some stage that Ahern’s position as Taoiseach was simply untenable and that he’d have to fall on his sword? ‘When his secretary gave evidence and broke down in tears. That evening I went to the Bach’s Saint John Passion and there’s a certain point – it’s all about the crucifixion obviously – where it is finished. My view was, “Yes, it is finished” – and I was thinking of Bertie Ahern.

Hmmm… interesting reference.

But what of this?

I didn’t make any comments in the last three or four weeks, but I wouldn’t have made gratuitous comments. ‘I have some regrets, just from his point of view… my belief is that he could have become president of the EU commission in 2004. If he had that it’s very unlikely that he would have been brought before any tribunal because he was peripheral to it.’

Erm… okay. That’s sort of startling on some levels.

Mind you, at least he went before the people and was elected…

So, it’s no wonder that he believes it’s a ‘long shot’ that he’ll hold on to his Dáil seat in the next general election. He admits: ‘My seat is the very opposite of safe. I have the most marginal seat in the country. I won my seat by 59 votes,’ he says. If the vote goes against him, he will be out of a job. Unlike someone like George Lee who was able to return to the bosom of RTE following his shock resignation as a Fine Gael TD after only nine months. When it comes to the safety net phenomenon, Martin Mansergh does not approve. ‘When people go into politics they should show the courage of their convictions and not be leaping back,’ he says. ‘George Lee let down his party and his constituents. I don’t think he was ever the economic saviour that he was played up to be. He was agether less clear what he had in the way of inventive ideas.’

And if you have any illusions that this government may show a softer kinder face anytime soon… this may dispel them:

Now, however, with his own political future far from secure, he is philosophical. ‘The Government has taken the view that you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb! There is no evidence that a government increases its popular support by showing itself to be afraid of the electorate. The real test of this Government is our ability to bring the country safely through to the other side of the economic crisis.’

And no mea culpa’s from him…

Unsurprisingly considering his job in the Department of Finance, he refuses to accept the general consensus amongst the irate public that the Government is responsible for the mess the country is in. He says: ‘The Government accepts responsibility for the decisions it’s taken but, at the same time, it is not willing to allow credence to oversimplification which would make it the sole scapegoat. ‘There’s a crude oversimplification – you know, Fianna Fáil, bankers, developers, Galway tent… We do need a dispassionate narrative. Obviously, we were overambitious; we didn’t recognise adequately the risks we were running, but we did get a lot of major things done.’

What intrigues me about that is the capacity to believe that the latter relates to the former or over shadows it.

Religion? Class?

‘I suppose I came from – I don’t want to exaggerate it – a minor gentry background. Nonetheless, I come from a privileged background, no question about that. I returned because I wanted to give something back.’

After over 20 years of backroom service to Fianna Fáil, Mansergh was put forward to run in the 2002 General Election but, after failing to win a seat, was appointed to the Seanad. He made it on his second attempt: ‘The Catholic proportion of South Tipperary nominally, at least, is about 98 per cent and that gives me a certain modest satisfaction in the sense that, look, politics doesn’t have to be sectarian.’ But has he ever received any racist remarks? ‘I received two abusive phone calls when I was appointed as a Minister. Someone called me an “Orange b******”. To which my reply was, “You’re a right bigot, aren’t you?” And he put down the phone. ‘There would be a small number of people who might take the view, because of one’s religious and class background or accent, that you are not part of the national community. But I have been well accepted by Fianna Fáil.’ He is not, however, a fan of the Orange Order. ‘I would completely reject the idea that the Orange Order are true champions of Protestantism. ‘It’s very dubious whether they’ve brought any real benefit to Protestantism. But, at the same time, I have to acknowledge that Orange is part of our national flag.’