It’s Alive! August 19, 2010
Posted by WorldbyStorm in Bioethics, Religion, Social Policy.trackback
I was given a copy of Alive! by Jim Monaghan the other day. It’s odd, but where I live I don’t seem to see it as much as I used to. Anyone have any thoughts on why that might be?
Anyhow, a few pieces caught my attention. Actually a whole heap of them, from the surprising news that ‘Europe’s Left [are] pushing a cultural revolution’.
There’s more, ‘with the collapse of the socialist project to re-make the economy, the Left has ‘replaced socio-economic revolution by sexual, moral and cultural revolution’”. Really? Clearly the memo from the Left didn’t reach me, for this was the first I heard about it.
And wait, the news is that ‘family structure, bioethics and the role of religion in society will be the major divisive issues in the US and in Europe this century’. Ah yes, us leftists, just gunning to rip apart traditional family structures. Which will be news to those around me.
Moreover, ‘the view that the struggle beetween violent Islamism and the West was a religious clash [was rejected]. Rather, it was the very secularism of the West which hindered dialogue with other societies, which continue to be religious’.
Now you might think that dialogue between the West and other societies is something rather different to the ‘struggle between violent Islamism and the West’ [sic]. But clearly this conflation doesn’t trouble the speaker.
All this was stated by Philosophy of Law professor at Seville University, Dr. Francisco Contreras. And he was speaking at a seminar ‘sponsored on behalf of the European People’s Party by’… Gay Mitchell MEP.
Meanwhile, and there’s more which I hope to address over the next while, what of the following?
And…
Here’s the original editorial in the Mullingar/Athlone Advertiser. Perhaps it’s an odd topic for the paper to be dealing with, but… on the other hand… (and what of the risible comments about the Examiner? Hard to know what is more so, perhaps the idea that it’s part of the ‘leftwing’ Irish media) Some might find it disturbing that the very expression of opinions on abortion being boycotted or campaigned against is – whatever ones views on the issue itself – something to be concerned about.
I think there was one bit in that edition where Jews are described as a race (in the context of I/P), and on the opposing page there’s a report celebrating a Jew becoming a priest.
The mask is slipping more and more, in other words.
Victory to the Bundists.
Hadn’t heard of Alive! before. I see they claim 392,000 copies distributed for free on a monthly basis. The scale of such a propaganda machine is pretty impressive. Anyone have any numbers on how many copies of various Left publications are sold/distributed, out of interest?
Six, one for the five lads and the sixth one for the dog.
There is a key distinction between sales and free distribution. The WSM distribute 6,000 copies of “Workers Solidarity” every two months, while the Socialist Party distribute upwards of 70,000 copies of “Fingal Socialist” every three months or so. As with “Alive”, there is no way of telling how many freebies end up lining the cat litter or going straight in the bin.
Alive are afraid of a “European cultural revolution”in this state and yet the Catholic Church controls most primary schools , an awful lot of second level schools,and the odd university.Some say that this control is meaningless,if it is why don’t they leave the school system?Then “religion” is a school subject!
Hospitals have religious members on their boards!What would Alive be afraid of if it were published in godlesss Britain or secular France?
Anybody know of how to go about separating the Church and State?
Never got one, are they posted or delivered by supporters.If posted its a big cost .
Whenever I’ve seen one, it’s usually because I’ve picked it up in a church after a family member’s funeral service.
They’re delivered (and distributed through Roman Catholic churches, if you’re particularly keen to get one).
I get the impression that it varies considerably from church to church. A lot of priests aren’t exactly filled with love for Alive, and prefer to stick to the less deranged Catholic press.
Alive does not represent mainstream opinion amongst either the hierarchy or clergy or the still-observant laity. It represents the kind of ultra you can currently find in the comments section over at Splintered Sunrise.
Could this sort of ‘culture war’ rhetoric (which I assume is derived from the example of the American religious right) really have much traction in the 26 counties, though?
You’d wonder, wouldn’t you.
I’m just struck by the enormity of the distribution. If the numbers are correct it’s 10,000 copies distributed per day (hey, I did well in my LC maths many moons ago!).
That’s quite a workload for any organisation. So their messages must have some traction, no?
Distributing a freesheet is a question of money, not of the popularity of the message. If you have the money you can distribute as many as you like, regardless of whether or not anyone reads it or pays any attention to it.
Personally, I do actually read Alive. It’s hilarious.
“There’s more, ‘with the collapse of the socialist project to re-make the economy, the Left has ‘replaced socio-economic revolution by sexual, moral and cultural revolution’”.
At least they have the right attitude towards identity politics
I think these wierd orgs can do a lot of damage. The attacks on newspapers is ominous. Interesting that they support Gaza. Rightwing catholicism may be weakened but it can still carry a punch.
Thinking about it further, as Ireland’s economic lost weekend turns into a lost decade, or two lost decades, the family values blame-it-on-the-Jews-and-the-’leftwing’-media message could indeed gain traction in the future.
Well maybe, but populists might more likely look for a more visible scapegoat, in which case “foreigners” would better fit the bill. Especially if unemployment remains the biggest negative effect of ongoing economic depression.
Uh-huh, but anti-semitism has that certain je ne sais quoi that other forms of populist bigotry lack – you get to spread all sorts of bullshit conspiracy theories, for example, which fits neatly with the apparent world-view of Alive!
Who was it who said that minority communities are the sociological equivalent of the miner’s canary?
Also, immigration in general is a tricky one for Catholic ultras at the moment. On the one hand, they are likely to be as full of prejudice as any other right wing maniac. On the other hand, our largest recent immigrant group tend to be much more devoutly Catholic than the locals are nowadays.
Glancing at the snippet you included in the pic I initially read it as “Midlands profile victory shows the way forward”.
Reading the article convinces me that my initial misreading is actually more accurate. I wonder is this Ray McIntyre related to the Ray McIntyre from Mullingar who is reported by SIPO as having donated to Rónán Mullen, both in a personal capacity and via his company in 2007?
All this was stated by Philosophy of Law professor at Seville University, Dr. Francisco Contreras. And he was speaking at a seminar ‘sponsored on behalf of the European People’s Party by’… Gay Mitchell MEP.
Gay Mitchell also recently sponsored a talk by Alveda King, at which listeners were informed that abortion causes cervical cancer and that large numbers of American girls have dropped dead after receiving Gardasil injections. I’m told that he sat there nodding away as she spoke.
The Catholic Church claims that they don’t support the views of the paper, even though they allow churches to actively stock it.
It would be interesting to test this theory of freedom of the press by doing a pamphlet called “Coathanger! Best ways of aborting your kid” and putting it in the foyer of your local church.
P.
Lol
Aye. If they see the paper in the church, they’ll assume it has
the blessing of the Church authorities.
There was an embarassingly bad piece in the Southern Star
gushing over Alive! last year, and attacking Miriam Harkin
for (correctly) criticising its inaccurate coverage of the Lisbon
Treaty. The SS has becoming utterly unreadable over recent
years.
A shame, because there is a place for good local media
outlets-I remember reading copies of “The Kerryman” from the
1970s and seeing superb political articles there that were the equal of anything in the Dublin broadsheets of the time.
Another odd thing: Alive! is listed as a charity, but it doesn’t
seem to list the directors of the charity anywhere on their
website.
http://www.alive.ie/donations.php
Lest we forget, Gay Mitchell, is FG EuroMP. This is the designated partner of Labour in government. Tweedlee tweedledum. If FG are in Health will we see the Vaccine they object to banned or not given free.I had to pay for my daughter.
There are danger signs. They appear to have successfully witchhunted a young reporter in the Midlands and are targetting the Examiner.
A neighbour delivers Alive to me on a regular basis. As soon as he’s gone its into the recycle bin for it.
It is dreadful way over the top stuff that sees anti catholic plots in almost everything.
“A neighbour delivers Alive to me on a regular basis. As soon as he’s gone its into the recycle bin for it.”
Maybe give him/her a copy of LookLeft or SocialistVoice or whatever in return
“It is dreadful way over the top stuff that sees anti catholic plots in almost everything.”
So there’s more than one invisible hand in the world then!
It is dreadful way over the top stuff that sees anti catholic plots in almost everything.
You’re not mistaking it for the comments box at Splintered Sunrise?
Ah, I see this gag has already been done several times below….
Risteard de Bhulbh? Cad é sin as Béarla. Dick Vulva?
Caithfidh gur magadh atá anseo?
Dick Woulfe, déarfainn.
When I worked in Maynooth there were always stacks of ‘Alive’ on display and available in the college post office.
Active parishioners?
Careful now comrades, you might find yourselves the subject of a witty polemic from Splintered Sunrise for your over the top militant secularism.
Down with that sort of thing!
Cadre Sunrise is dead to me now.
I’m a theist whose never really seen a contradiction between theism and secularism. The public sphere can and should be secular. It doesn’t mean one is disrespectful of religion, religious belief or people who are religious, but equally those aren’t reified over all else and aren’t overly respected. The history of this state is particularly unhappy in respect of what happened when state and church colluded in the period post Independence. Maintaining that distance is almost the definition to me of secularism. And take above, I think being anti-abortion is an entirely legitimate position. But trying to crush the expression of opposing positions, or even slightly divergent ones, is indefensible.
Ahh but if you take the traddie Catholic view that abortion is the murder of children then from their point of view it’s entirely correct to use every legal means at their disposal to stop the spread of ideas that advocate such practices? From their point of view the articulation of pro-choice views is a disrespect to their religion. Aren’t they right in a sense that secularism, which for example guarantees people the right to disseminate views repugnant to their religious outlook, is indeed an attack on their religious sensibilities?
Surely, but I’d wonder how many Catholics in this state are traditionalist Catholics?
I agree with you here WbS. Alive! is a distasteful rag with damn all theological (or historical) content; it seems to concentrate on American style culture wars. That’s characteristic of JPII/New Evangelization dross – what traditionalists deride as Neo-Conservative Catholicism. I suspect it gets a lot of its funding from the US.
That’s an interesting take on it shane. I have a friend who would be about ten years younger than me, in her mid-30s, and would certainly fit to some extent what you describe there of a JPII approach. I’m fascinated that you’re so deeply critical of it – that’s not me being pejorative about your position, just that it’s an intriguing analysis of yours.
I suppose I’m broadly in the traditionalist camp – which is not without its own sub-divisions. Do read the article by Fr Ripperger, it explains the dichotomy well; there’s a totally different approach to tradition. Traditionalists have always been extremely critical of JP2′s pontificate. There’s a world of difference between the ‘conservatives’ at the Second Vatican Council (mostly Thomists), like Cardinal Ottaviani or Archbishop Lefebvre, and today’s ‘conservatives’ (mostly resourcement-ish) who accept and do not challenge the (post-)Vatican II changes, particularly in the liturgy.
Appreciate that, I most certainly will.
That’s a fascinating link you have posted there Shane but also deeply flawed. I think there is a serious misreading of Hegel in it. Whether that is deliberate in order to advance a polemical position or genuine I don’t know.
Take this for example:
“This fundamental shift in perspective has left the traditionalists with the sense that they are fighting for the good of the extrinsic tradition without the help of and often hindered by the current magisterium. Liturgically, traditionalists judge the Novus Ordo in light of the Mass of Pius V and the neo-conservatives judge the Tridentine Mass, as it is called, in light of the Novus Ordo(47). This comes from the Hegelianism which holds that the past is always understood in light of the present, i.e. the thesis and antithesis are understood in light of their synthesis. THIS LEADS TO THE MENTALITY THAT NEWER IS ALWAYS BETTER, BECAUSE THE SYNTHESIS IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN THE THESIS OR THE ANTI-THESIS TAKEN ALONE .” (Emphasis my own. Apologies for the shouty capitals, I don’t know how to put things in italics)
I think what we have here is a confusion between Hegel’s analysis of how the historical process of change works, i.e. the conflict between opposing ideas that themselves produce new ideas that nevertheless contain elements of past ideas, and the propagandistic use Hegel put his work to, which was the idea that the whole purpose of this process was to produce the Prussian “liberal” monarchy of the late 18th and early 19th century.
The former is a profound insight, for it’s time, into the process of change on the physical, ideological and historical planes, the latter is simply Herr Hegel knowing which side his bread was buttered on!
I often think when I read your contributions bemoaning the sell out of the tradition by the Vatican II brigade that you would greatly benefit from reading Marx’s and Engel’s update of Heglian dialectics. I know that probably comes across as very patronizing but when you make contributions regarding the consequences of Vatican II for the Church it comes across (to me anyway) as if the blame for this lies with a cabal under the influence of erroneous ideas who seized control of the Church at an opportune moment. The above link also comes across that way.
For example:
“The dominance of Hegelianism and immanentism also led to a form of collective ecclesiastical amnesia(48). During the early1960s, there existed a generation which was handed the entire ecclesiastical tradition, for the tradition was still being lived. However, because they laboured under the aforesaid errors, that generation(49) chose not to pass on the ecclesiastical tradition to the subsequent generation as something living.”
For a Marxist it beggars belief that someone can attempt to analyse profound changes in an organisation like the Catholic Church and make absolutely no reference to the profound social, economic and political changes going on in the world around it in the post war period!
For centuries the Church has been a hot bed of competing factions and different ideas often breaking out into bloody conflicts and continent spanning wars. If the abandonment of tradition is simply down to the machinations of a certain faction or false ideas then why have we not seen such occurrences more frequently in the Catholic Church over the past 200o years? Why was it that particular generation of the late 50′s early 60′s that broke the link (as you see it). Could it possibly have something to do with the changes that were going on in the rest of the world do you think?
Very interesting take, I haven’t time to discuss further at this moment, but it seems credible to me.
[To put things in italics to put a short code at the begining and a matching closing code:
<i>the text you want in italics</i>
gives
the text you want in italics]
Neilcaff, I’ll bow to your knowledge on Hegel; I’ll certainly take up your recommendation re Marx and Engels.
“If the abandonment of tradition is simply down to the machinations of a certain faction or false ideas then why have we not seen such occurrences more frequently in the Catholic Church over the past 200o years? Why was it that particular generation of the late 50′s early 60′s that broke the link (as you see it). Could it possibly have something to do with the changes that were going on in the rest of the world do you think?”
Well, as Michael Davis demonstrated, the Novus Ordo has far more in common with the Cranmerian rite of 1552 than it has with the Old Mass. Many liturgical scholars have also pointed out the astonishing similarities between the new liturgy and the liturgical innovations of the Jansenists in 18th century Italy and France. To be fair though, the Second Vatican Council did not call for a New Order of Mass and while making very limited concessions to the vernacular, stressed that “the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites” (Sacramentum concilium, 36). The Novus Ordo was created by the Concilium under the highly controversial Annibale Bugnini (earlier banished by John XXIII from his chair at the Lateran University, and later exiled by Paul VI to Iran after having being shown documents claiming that he was a Freemason infiltrator) ; as even the current Pope said, the old liturgy was replaced “in a manufacturing process, with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product”. But what happened during and after the Second Vatican Council did not of course occur ex nihilio. The anti-modernist campaign waged by St Pius X was very effective, but it did not eradicate modernism completely. It survived up until the Council, in a more rudimentary form, in certain intellectual circles, particularly at the Institut Catholique in Paris and the Louvain in Brussels. The Council was like a coup d’etat for (hitherto marginalized) forces already at work. Yves Congar (in many ways the father of the Council) was right when he, rather triumphalistically, hailed VII as ‘the October Revolution in the Church’
Any explanation of the Conciliar and Post-Conciliar Reforms that did not take account of the post-war situation is going to be very defective. I highly recommend people read Fr. Ralph Wiltgen’s definitive, unparallaled, and unimpeachably objective history of the Second Vatican Council, The Rhine Flows into the Tiber published in 1966. Fr Wiltgen set up the press commission for the Council and conducted a subscription news service on the Council debates. He had private access to bishops and theologians from all factions. He shows how a clique of periti from the six Rhine countries triumphed over the Roman Curia and the very conservative Latin fathers. Dr Con Lucey, the bishop of Cork, later observed that the periti had been more influential than the bishops. Cardinal Frings,the Archbishop of Cologne, was by far the most influential prelate. He was in his seventies and partially blind but his consultor was a certain Fr Joseph Ratzinger. Fr Ratzinger actually drafted Frings’ infamous speech attacking the Holy Office, which later led to its abolition and replacement with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (which Ratzinger would later head). The CDF is a tame little pussycat compared to the old Holy Office and Ratzinger’s speech has done incalculable harm.
That, and the rejection of the curial schema had a significant effect in radicalizing bishops. One unidentified Irish bishop said that it completely altered how they seen the Holy See. Wilten describes (pg 28) how the feared Ottiviani was later silenced, and how bishops applauded his humilitation (the Council’s debates were conducted in spoken Latin, and clapping was actually forbidden):
The new theology and ecclesiology became mainstream after VII. Many of those condemned by Pius XII and the Holy Office (de Lubac, Congar etc) were appointed by John XXIII as consultants to the Preparatory Commission. The Church of the Counter Reformation, rather than being moderately reformed (as was the intention), was completely destroyed.
Fr. Brian McKevitt (Alive’s editor) isn’t happy with today’s Irish priests, calling them “cowards” and complaining “Because of silence from the pulpit, many cohabiting couples do not even know they are living in a state of sin.”
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Cohabit+couples+criticised.-a0138369352
“.I see they claim 392,000 copies distributed for free on a monthly basis. The scale of such a propaganda machine is pretty impressive.”
Indeed, “Village” magazine named McKevitt as one of the most influential people in Ireland a few months ago. Methinks it’s time
McKevitt and his publication were subject to some journalistic
scrutiny.
Am I missing out on some kind of in house joke here or is the splinter virus spreading.
Well, there’s some interesting stuff over on Splintered, tho, as Shane has noted it doesn’t seem to overly deal with the RCC in Ireland. But, in a way how is it possible to analyse an artifact like Alive! without delving into different groups of Catholics? Who is producing it, what’s their belief system (within the broader constraints of Catholicism), etc, etc?
I think that’s quite useful, even if sometimes it can seem like Kremlinology (although Len Deighton had harsh words about that comparison as early as the mid 1960s).
I should say by the way I quite enjoy most of Splinty’s writings on the Catholic Church (although I have no idea what all the fuss is about surrounding this ‘Birmingham 3′ he’s always banging on about lately)
The problem for me is the some of the deeply unpleasant individuals who have surfaced on the blog as a result. You do not expect to encounter Tsarist style anti-semitism or virulent homophobia of the worst kind on a left wing blog.
Yep, the posts are mostly interesting (at least when they aren’t just digs at Austen Ivereigh) but the comments section is flooding with shit. The comments sections of most traditionalist Catholic blogs, even the better ones, are sewers.
In a way what’s most enlightening is how a blog can pull in a completely new group of people almost overnight. Certainly some commenting there are pushing the envelope of free speech quite some way.
Perhaps the blog should be renamed The Curia Report,or The Kyrie Report to reflect the new direction.
I also find Splinty funny and sometimes wonder if that is his intention ,the ongoing saga of the “Birmingham 3″ punished for no aparrant reason and likely to cause problems during the Holy Fathers visit is pure comedy.
I agree HAL, particularly re the humour element, though the thing is who on earth seriously thinks the Brum 3 will cause any problems at all during the Pope’s visit? It’s like a spat at managerial level in Coca Cola. Who gives a toss? Who will change to Pepsi?
The Dominicans , Retrouvaille (help for marriages in serious trouble) the Vatican site and catholicireland.net are listed as links on the alive.ie site.
had a quick look at CatholicIreland.net and what do I see only a report of
a visit to Knock of “Britain’s Got Talent phenomenon Susan Boyle”. Stopping at a Daniel O’Donnell concert in Castlebar “She sang Our Lady of Knock in a duet with Daniel O’Donnell”
and also on that site a link to http://www.churchservices.tv/….
what i think is interesting about the ethos of alive, as it manifested its self in ireland before that publication and in the west in general is how the right have staked there claim on christianity. bar south america, have the left tried any thing comparable?
maybe the oportunity has passed now the way irish society has gone, but like the quote in fr ted “catholic theology is so broad you can say anything and chances are your correct” but the extensive network of the catholic and other christian churches in the past, into nearly every home in the county useing comonly recognised bible stories to explain an argument and then introduce wider politics. thats what there doing.
That’s something to think about. In a way I guess that because the institutional Church was so socially conservative that it made it difficult for many on the left to retain any identification with it (added to a tendency for many on the left to eschew theism in part or whole as an element of their belief system). But the capacity for a left dynamic within Christianity and the RCC in particular is greater than is often thought, at least IMHO.
Alive is delivered by volunteers, as far as I can tell, in our part of Dublin. It is also available in any RC church that I’ve entered in recent years. If the RC church is embarrassed by it’s existence they appear to be remarkably tolerant of it’s presence at the back of churches.
It is interesting to read Alive as the paper completely misrepresents the Left and Socialist ideas to almost monty python like absurdity. However, I am sure that some readers of Alive do not appreciate the absurdity and really do believe the assertions that Marxists hate religion for example.
There are nasty elements to it though, for example targeting journalists such as Joe Little in RTE for a red scare. Perhaps Alive is tolerated, as it says things that others would love to say in public.
Yep, there is a nasty element to it – very. But I think they’re in a comfort zone in respects of considering other philosophies. They simply categorise them under ‘Wrong’ and leave it at that.
Alive! has the religious views of a Richard John Neuhaus, but its
journalistic methods are pure Kelvin MacKenzie .
“Marxists hate religion”
Probably more true in the past than today, where the opiate of the masses has moved on to TV, celebrity culture, shopping etc.?
Hard to deny the anti-clerical emphasis of past revolutions from France to Russia to Spain, although more of a class / power dynamic with the religious organisational structures of the day rather than ideological differences.
And then that became a badge of being ‘Marxist’ and indeed more broadly on the left.
I’m not quite as cynical about identity politics as Garibaldy, but I do think he’s more than a point on the matter, particularly – as we’ve seen in various times and places – where they become substitutes for class struggle.
Like you say LATC, the churches in those revolutions were targetted as much for their political positions as anything else.
As an anti-cleric myself though I did quite enjoy the bit in “For Whom The Bell Tolls” where the Don and the PP were fecked off the cliff by the villagers in the middle of the intoxication of the early moments of the revolution
Clearly there are “good people”, well meaning and motivated, within religious organisations and as lay followers. One could envisage a society where such effort and solidarity could be harnessed by other social organisations which were uncontaminated by notions of spirituality.
There is good to be seen in much of the peripheral stuff around religion, but the core stuff of christianity is as much a random side effect of historical accident as anything else, the right story in the right place at the right time. The recent holiday trip to Rome really illustrated the imperial nature of the RCC, two millenia of funnelling wealth upwards, aided by the financier class along the way (holiday reading touched on the Florentine / Medici co-operation with the RCC).
I’m an atheist but this anti-Catholic rhetoric is making me nervous | http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/22/pope-visit-catholic-prejudice
Padraig Reidy:
I would go along with a aprt of this. We who have suffered from the church, esp. women, are the ones to make the protest.
I attend mass relatively frequently, and havent seen a copy of Alive! in any church in the cork city area for a good 3 years. Used to be relatively common, but just seemed to dissapear. Pity, thought it was a scream. Don’t know was that a diocesan decision or guideline or what, or maybe its still in some churches, but none of the ones i go to.
Only place i can get a copy now is on the stairs of the boole basement in UCC, sitting alongside copies of workers solidarity, returns of an Phoblacht and nightclub flyers… Im sure they would love to be keeping such company…