Greens Throw Cowen (and hopefully themselves) Under the Bus November 22, 2010
Posted by Garibaldy in Irish Politics.trackback
I know this is being discuss in the it wasn’t me thread, but worth one of its own.
Gormley’s call for an election in 2 months or so here
Thanks to LATC for the link to the text of the Green Party statement
The past week has been a traumatic one for the Irish electorate. People feel misled and betrayed.
The Green Party believes three things must be done in the coming two months to safeguard the future prosperity and independence of the Irish people.
These are:
- Producing a credible four-year plan to show we can make our Budgets balance by 2014.
- Delivering a Budget for 2011
- Securing funding support from the EU and IMF which will respect vital Irish interests and restore stability to the Euro area.
We have always said that our involvement in government would only continue as long as it was for the benefit of the Irish people. Leaving the country without a government while these matters are unresolved would be very damaging and would breach our duty of care.
But we have now reached a point where the Irish people need political certainty to take them beyond the coming two months. So, we believe it is time to fix a date for a general election in the second half of January 2011.
We made our decision last Saturday after a long series of meetings.
Since entering government in June 2007, we in the Green Party have worked to fix and reform the economy. It has been difficult. We have taken tough decisions and put the national interest first.
We cannot go back and reverse the property bubble and the reckless banking which we consistently spoke opposed. Nor can we control the market turmoil which has afflicted the Euro area.
We have taken extensive measures to recognise the losses and stabilise our banking system. However, it is now clear we need further measures to give market confidence about our banks and public finances.
We are now discussing ways of restoring stability to the banking system with the support of our European colleagues and the IMF. We have to ensure that the terms of any such support are in the interests of the Irish people and the wider Euro area.
The timeframe for achieving a four-year plan, Budget 2011 and a good outcome from IMF/EU talks is very short.
These matters must at this stage take priority ahead of everything else.
Despite our difficulties and disappointments, I believe we can get out of this situation. We must all work together to ensure the best outcome for everyone.
Leaving the country without a government while these matters are unresolved would be very damaging and would breach our duty of care.
They have a duty of care?! like doctors?! – idiot.
To all us poor idiots who don’t understand that the environmental crisis is so great that everything else must be sacrificed to address it.
Of course, things like Tara and the cutting of Dublin Bus services make it harder for the plebs to understand the message.
Pompous prats.
Yes, fossil fuel scarcity and climate change and all that will increasingly mean for humanity are the most important extrinsic issues, but to think that a bit of green tokenism and a blatant surrender to finance capital is care-ful policy is plain delusional.
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Contradiction surely between leaving after the passing of budget etc and always doing what is to the benefit of Irish people?
This makes things interesting for Labour and Fine Gael.
Both parties are fully signed up to the IMF/cuts suicide pact. But they desperately want FF and the Greens to pass the budget, leaving the opposition parties untouched by it. A post election budget passed by FG/Lab would be for all practical purposes the same, but they’d be the ones wielding the hatchet.
But with an election now seemingly guaranteed for January or February, every gombeen on the FF backbenches will be aware that the Greens have beaten them to the punch. The budget is the only issue they will be able to use to distance themselves from the government now. There is at the very least a reasonable chance that some of them will pick an issue (pension cuts if its available, hospital cuts otherwise) and refuse to vote for the budget.
Labour and FG would, of course, prefer if the FF backbenchers collectively took a bullet for the team, but the average FF TD didn’t get where he is today through self sacrifice.
If there’s a backbench rebellion, what will FG and Labour do?
My own suspicion is that Gilmore is smart enough to keep Labour well clear of the budget. They won’t disagree with a line of it, but they will want to remain untainted by it. Fine Gael on the other hand strike me as having more than a few fools who might bite at the “national interest” bait.
Your on to something there re Fine Gael and the ‘National Interest’. There were reports recently (Cant recall where) of at least 3 Fine Gael TDs willing to back the budget in the ‘National Interest’. I wonder is the issue divisive enough for further fun and games within FG.
We also now have the prospect of Fianna Fail having to ditch Cowen as soon as they can, in what in essence is now an Election Campaign.
Given that he would have to be involved in the talks with our ‘new partners’, it leaves very little time for them to act.
“Fine Gael on the other hand strike me as having more than a few fools who might bite at the “national interest” bait.”
I am sure you would agree that they vote for their class interest. It is the LP who vote and accept the cuts who are fools or sell outs.
I would not let the other coalition partner off. I refer to the ICTU leadership who are effectively part of the gang.
I hope if ULA has a modest success that it also offers a united challenge in each and every union.
I’m confused by your assumption that Labour and Fine Gael represent different class interests.
Oh I forgot to mention. Surely the Germans should be grateful for our help to their car industry with the scrappage scheme.
And talking about the 12 % tax rate, what about the Isle of Man, Channel islands, Gibralter, and Luxemburg. Why is it only this state’s tax rate that annoys.
From Paddy healy
http://paddyhealy.wordpress.com/
This letter was published in Irish Times, Saturday, November 20
The first act of a new government must be to pass a Bill excluding from current and future public office all persons who were members of the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrat cabinet in the 2003-2007 period.
Before he became governor of the Central Bank, Prof Patrick Honohan in the Economic and Social Review(Summer, 2009) said the “Irish banking system had been, in effect, on a life-support system since September 2008. Complacency resulted in the banks fuelling the late stage of an obvious construction bubble with massive foreign borrowing, leaving them exposed to solvency and liquidity risks which in past times would have been inconceivable. At the end of 2003, net indebtedness of Irish banks to the rest of the world was just 10 per cent of GDP. By early 2008 that had jumped to over 60 per cent.”
The Bill should also provide for similar exclusion of all those members who sat on the board of directors of the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland over the same period. – Yours, etc,
PADDY HEALY, 086-4183732
88 Griffith Court,
Fairview,
Dublin 3.
“And talking about the 12 % tax rate, what about the Isle of Man, Channel islands, Gibralter, and Luxemburg. Why is it only this state’s tax rate that annoys.”
Well, all but Luxembourg are outside the EU taxation mechanisms, and Luxembourg’s corporation tax is more than twice our own. There’s only Bulgaria and Cyprus with lower rates, and they’ve garnered a lot of criticism too. In any case – it looks like the Ir4ish rate will stand – a good thing too – it’ll be a while before we’re in any position to lose the FDI income.
To be fair it’s not the tax rate, but the effective tax rate that matters. Which is product of tax rates and approved tax avoidance and allowed rates of evasion. I think I’m right in saying that the Germans have the same proportion of taxation coming from corporate taxation (of the order of 2 to 3 percent) as the RoI. Interestingly only the Norwegians seem to be serious about raising much tax from corporate profits.
If the IMF threaten to close of the Double Irish tax evasion loopholes then the ordure will hit the ventilator.
It appears Lowry and Healy Rae may have deserted the Ship too.
The state of roads in Kilgarvan mustn’t have been at the top of the IMFs list.
Lowry is prevaricating on the News at One. JHR appears to have definitely deserted. If Lowry remains, the Government still has a majority of one, correct?
Remember Jinks of Sligo who kept FF out with a suitable illness. Someone/s will miss the vote.
Joe Higgins, Socialist Party MEP, has a statement out:
The cynical posturing of the Green Party in calling for a January General Election for the “good of the country” will not save it from annihilation when the Irish people go to vote.
In three and a half years in government, the Greens have shown themselves to be no more than a clutch of arch opportunists, who were quite happy to assist Fianna Fáil in making working class people pay for the consequences of the economic and political crimes of that party, and who carry full responsibility for the disaster which has been visited on society.
The announcement by the Greens that they are committed to passing a brutal budget and agreeing the strings that will come attached with the ECB / IMF bailout then pulling the plug on the government in January does not bestow them with an ounce of credibility. Rather, it will be seen as a desperate and cynical measure to ensure that working people and the unemployed continue to pay a heavy price for this crisis of Irish capitalism.
The Fianna Fáil / Green Party government can do a lot of damage between now and the end of January when they will be booted out. It is vital that a mass active opposition to their budget and the strings that will come attached with the ECB / IMF loan. This begins but doesn’t end with next Saturday’s National Protest. But this needs to be followed up by a 24 hour general strike and a mass protest at the Dáil on budget night.
The overall result of the election is almost a forgone conclusion. We will likely get a Fine Gael / Labour government whose sole virtue is that they are not Fianna Fáil but who are nonetheless wedded to the cutback agenda. However their ability to continue this agenda will be greatly curbed if the current government is removed on the back of a movement of mass protests and strike action.
The United Left Alliance, of which the Socialist Party is part along with other forces on the left, will be launched in the media later this week and publicly launched at a rally in the Gresham Hotel next Monday. It will contest seats in all the key urban centres of the country and will credibly be in the running for up to seven seats. The United Left Alliance will be the real opposition in the next Dáíl and will go on to become a major factor in Irish politics in the coming year.
Lowry’s position is Machiavellian. He’s said he won’t vote for the budget unless FG & Labour do. From his point of view if they fall for this he’s in a better electoral position as he can say everyone voted for the budget not just him. On the other hand, Labour don’t want to vote for the budget but nor do they want a snap election that would force them to bring it in themselves, so they will be hoping FG are stupid enough to vote for it & they can then clean up in the election afterwards winning seats that otherwise would have gone to FG – though this would also lead to some annoying questions during the campaign.Consequently Rabbitte on the news today sounded really peeved with the Greens & especially the two independents for messing up the party strategy.
Things have gotten so mixed up at this stage a view may emerge that delaying the budget til after an election is actually preferable, especially as now we’re getting a bailout anyway the whole international reputation thing vis-a-vis raising money on the bondmarkets no longer holds – unless the EU-IMF are simply banning us from having an election which is entirely possible of course.
No flies on Lowry.
You’d really have to have some brass neck to go out and canvass for the Greens.
The British want our corp, tax rate raised. the Channel islands, Gibralter and Iselof Man are dependencies. Luxemburg was part of the tax avoidance network used by Vodaphone to avoid UK tax.
Mark, the LP claims to be a workingclass party. Up to the expulsion of Militant your co-thinkers thought the same. I personally do not think the same. I see no dividend in an abstract debate on bourgeois workers parties. On a reformist basis SF is far to the left of them, in fact the only party(Dail one anyway) offering an alternative to the slash and burn.
My own suspicion is that Gilmore is smart enough to keep Labour well clear of the budget. They won’t disagree with a line of it, but they will want to remain untainted by it. Fine Gael on the other hand strike me as having more than a few fools who might bite at the “national interest” bait.
Can’t disagree.
However, I doubt we’ll get as far as a budget. A caretaker can talk to the IMF/EU/ ECB, and even present a 4 year plan to them. None of this needs a parliament.
FF aren’t going to want to go to the country divided: with a dozen open rebels, and Cowen either gone or hanging by a thread – defending a budget that they needed FG help to get through makes an appalling situation for them even worse. It might be the case that they decide to go now, and then sort out their inner conflicts on the opposition benches.
Fine Gael, or even a segment of that party, backing the budget and getting it through would surely be a dream scenario for Labour who could then mop up the votes of the disaffected. The Greens are being typically ham fisted here, for a start it’s unlikely that Lowry, Healy-Rae and even the likes of McGrath and O’Flynn are going to vote for the budget if they’re guaranteed that they’ll have to defend that vote on the doorsteps a month later. They might decide that they’re better served bringing down the government themselves rather than letting the Greens do it when it suits them.
Though, and this may be the cynic in me, I’d be inclined to think that this could be a manoeuvre by the Greens to try and save face before they troop into the government lobbies and vote for the budget. Budget, and the moment of maximum danger, having been passed, they can then decide in January that in the light of national interest/some bollocks about an electric car or something/changed circumstances/consultation with the party members/the promise that some guy in kerry will be stopped setting his ferrets on the pygmy shrew they’ll be staying put after all. So I wouldn’t be betting on that January election. I presume FF will reassure the waverers by telling them that the Greens are full of this kind of rhetoric but never back it up. As Humbert Humbert observed about his stepdaughter, the Greens will hang around to get screwed by Fianna Fail because there is nowhere else they can go. And Fianna Fail always have to be dragged out on their shield, in opposition the party simply loses its meaning.
Rumours on Politics.ie are saying that Cowen is going to head to the Aras tonight.
This is being repeated on the Guardian website – Dec. 16 is being given as the provisional date for the next GE.
Incidentally, has anyone spotted the irony that the Guardian site has been better informed and more accurate and up to date than any Irish media outlet over the past week?
7pm statement from Cowen according to Guardian.
More like the guardian is as good as picking up rumour and innuendo as Corcoran on Politics.ie.
Cowen is staying.
He is indeed. But they got the fact he was going to give a press conference right and before RTÉ and the IT.
It was always my understanding that the content of a press conference is the scoop, not informing journalists that they should show up for the press conference.
notice of a press conference is hardly a scoop as the very fact that press will be there kinda means that the press are informed of it.
The ‘scoop’ was that Cowen was going to dissolve the Dail. As with so much these past ten days, nothing but internet blather.
Well, yesish, there’s something in that, but given that that’s the single clear line of communication between the electorate and the government it seems curious that a foreign station would learn of it before our own media. I mean I was checking out the IT site and it wasn’t until well after Cowen had said his piece that they even had it reported on their site, whereas the Guardian again had it up almost immediately.
I’m no fetishist for speed per se, but it’s a bit odd.
All due respect, worldbystorm, but they didn’t learn of it first. They were informed of it at the same time, once the text and emails requesting media to be there were sent out.
Maybe the Irish media were holding back – slightly holding back – in order to find out what the press conference was going to be about.
The Guardian already had that information, of course. They knew that Cowen was calling an election.
Sure wasn’t it on politics.ie?
Sorry, my point was that the IT and RTE were slow to give even the actual details of the conference as it unfolded. That’s a slightly different issue. Note that I said there was something in your original point re the rumours…
“…RTE were slow to give even the actual details of the conference as it unfolded.”
apart from broadcasting it live on TV and internet, and having immediate react interviews with the leader of the Labour Party and deputy leader of fine Gael, you mean?
I’d advice that you stop digging.
On the sites themselves, IT and RTE text updates not updated, yes RTÉ was streaming it fine. But still not updating the text. So digging, not quite.
Look on the bright side, at least RTE didn’t stop their coverage halfway through tonight.
“So digging, not quite”
Apart from the fact that the Guardian was updating its site with wrong, baseless information – information without any foundation (Cowen to call general election for 16 December, etc) –
And RTE and IT did not.
So. guardian. Quick with the rumours and wrong with the facts.
RTE, slow with the text updating of something they were broadcasting live, with commentary and immediate reaction.
Interesting to know that you’ll go with a quick rumour over a slow fact, worldbystorm.
I was online between 6.30 to 7.30 flicking between the Irish Times, RTE online media player, the Guardian and the RTE text based site, ie the basic RTE site which contains the news in text form.
During that time the Guardian did indeed indicate that it had heard Cowen was going to resign. However, as I continued flicking back and forth from IT text to RTE text (and with the exception of the player) both text based sites were slower than the Guardian to put out the very basic information coming from a press conference held at a location barely two and a half miles from where I live in Dublin.
I’ve been one of those writing this blog for over four years now, most every day and often twice or more. I think most people who visit here regularly have a pretty good idea of precisely what I’d do with whatever presents itself.
Now you can accept that or you can’t, entirely up to you, Rick (or are you someone else who I might know of under a different name?).
But I’d genuinely appreciate a little less snideness in your comments to be honest – particularly since I accepted your point about the Guardian running with an incorrect rumour immediately.
Just to note – the “Rick O’Shea” in this thread isn’t me.
Thanks.
It’s not me either