The trouble with symbols… May 17, 2011
Posted by WorldbyStorm in Culture, European Politics, Irish Politics, Northern Ireland.trackback
Interesting editorial this morning in the Irish Times which I’ve hardly any time to do justice before braving the lock-down. But consider some of it. For a start it seems curiously at adds with that lock-down:
Yet, the real significance of the event lies, less in being extraordinary, than in being pleasantly and properly ordinary. It is at last possible to say that the relationship between Britain and Ireland is simply normal. It is what it ought to be between neighbouring countries bound together by strong economic, political, cultural, social,sporting and personal ties.
This morning on Radio 4 there was breaking news of a ‘viable device’ discovered in Maynooth. This doesn’t feel like ‘ordinary’ even if, I suspect, many of us would find that representation of Republicanism entirely futile.
There’s some good stuff.
It took many decades and a great deal of pain for the relationship to be placed on the footing of equality and respect that is essential to true friendship. No one is seeking to forget that struggle and the Queen’s visit to the Garden of Remembrance is a poignant recognition on the British side of its legitimacy.
I think in general terms the relationship is very good, indeed it’s only when we have such conflicted representations of sovereignty such as the Queen that problems emerge.
But some stuff I’d wonder about.
Yet, the diehards do this independent State some small service – they remind us of what Ireland as a whole has left behind. They still define Irish identity negatively – as anti-Britishness. Most of the rest of the nation, even in the midst of our current travails, has the self-confidence not to need a hatred of Britain to make it feel Irish.
Is that genuinely what inspires those who are protesting – in so far very small groups? I tend to doubt that, even if I also think that there are serious questions about the utility of any such protests.
But then if one reads the following there’s also issues:
The small minority of extreme nationalists who begrudge the visit seem incapable of grasping the way it symbolises the distinct and separate sovereignty of the two states. Generations of Irish patriots could only dream of a time when a British monarch would arrive here as honoured guest rather than condescending ruler, as a friendly neighbour rather than an embodiment of imperial power.
That’s fine, but in a context where the actual Irish people are pushed far far back from the events taking place you’d wonder about the meanings of the visit, about the level of normalisation and what the legacy of all this will be. And it makes the final paragraph seem overly optimistic when it talks of ‘affection’.
Queen Elizabeth is welcome as a remarkable woman in her own right, as a figure to whom a significant minority on this island give allegiance and, above all, as a symbol of the mutual affection and common interests of two separate but closely connected countries.
The visit will take place. It will go fine. It will end. There will be – perhaps – a repeat visit at some point. Such things will be ‘normalised’. But the ring of steel points to an utter dislocation between the rhetoric above and the reality today.
Yet there’s another point. This event merely points up in exaggerated form the dislocation that already exists between citizens and states, the way in which the former are pushed out of the picture when expedient. Worth reflecting on that too.
James Connolly seemed to understand the symbolism of a British royal visit 100 years ago. Does the Irish Times deem him anti-British?
http://aprnonline.com/?p=85172
“That’s fine, but in a context where the actual Irish people are pushed far far back from the events taking place you’d wonder about the meanings of the visit, about the level of normalisation and what the legacy of all this will be.”
It doesn’t strike me as a relationship between equals, all this heavy security surrounding Liz’s
visit. It strikes me more as a subordinate relationship. Certainly many of the people I’ve
talked to about-some completely unsympathetic to
Irish nationalism, and the Irish Left-are complaining about the cost and the inconvience of
this visit.
How in the name of God is the Queen ‘a remarkable woman in her own right?’ A million euros to anyone who can make a case for that particular bit of nonsense. And bringing in Helen Mirren isn’t allowed.
The fact is that we already enjoy remarkably good relations with England. English people are the largest group of emigrants in this country, we work with them, our kids go to school with them and their nationality is never an issue. So the pretence that the Queen’s visit is necessary to effect some kind of sea change in attitudes is just nonsense. In fact almost all of the sentences you’ve quoted above give the impression of being written by someone who didn’t give more than a couple of seconds thought to what they actually meant.
Watching BBC Ulster’s preview of the event last night it was notable how much stress was placed on the extraordinary security measures in Dublin which surely must give the impression, if we’re bothered about that, of a nation seething with anti-royal unrest.
And looking at Kenny I couldn’t help thinking that the meaning of the visit has now shifted from the original happy clappy Paddy loves the Queen one to the ‘bravely facing down the threat of subversives’ trope which is a much beloved part of Fine Gael’s self-image and also appeals to a certain element in the guards.
Nice to see ‘self-confidence’ making a return. In the Tiger era it was up there with ‘maturity’ as the word du jour for excusing all kinds of offences against common sense and decency.
If James Connolly was around today the Times wouldn’t deem him ‘anti British’ they’d describe him as a left wing extremist who needed to face up to economic realities.
Connolly would probably have had the bad taste to point out that a small percentage of the money forked out on the visit would have solved the problems in Croke Villas, St. Teresas Gardens, Dolphin House and other places where the residents are forced to endure conditions described by a doctor on Prime Time recently as approximating to those of a refugee camp.
‘Pleasantly and properly ordinary.’ In the face of the security operation this defies reality to such an extent it’s obvious that the Times have simply decided to tell lies about the visit. The pieces about the fantastic reception accorded to the Queen and the quantum leap forwad this represents have already been written in the minds of the hacks.
I’m reminded of two events in particular. One Bertie’s speech to the House of Commons during the 2007 election campaign. More or less forgotten now but lauded in the same ‘historic’ terms at the time to an extent which is world class embarrassing.
And the Papal Visit of 1979 when the great and good assured us that the down on the knees bit on Drogheda was also ‘historic’ and that the Provos might well hand in the guns as a result.
It’s not the Queen’s fault that she has provoked this orgy of deluded bollocks in the media.
Fintan O’Toole’s piece in todays IT (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0517/1224297119741.html) was I thought an appropriately level-headed, if flawed and incomplete, statement on the relationship between the states. Flawed and incomplete in that it overlooks the colonialism which formed the unequal economic relationship which drove the emigration from here to there. But as one born in 60′s London of Irish emigrant parents, and one who later took the boat myself in the 80s, it does speak to me of the positive aspects of what Britain stands (or stood) for, i.e. a 20th century social democracy which has never existed in this state.
That comment came out in the wrong place, it’s not intended as a reply to EC’s.
I agree with you on the social democracy aspect. And the whole tradition represented by the likes of EP Thompson, Christopher Hill and Raymond Williams is massively inspiring and was educational for someone like me who also took the boat in the late eighties and knew little enough about politics and history when I did so. To that strain of English thought we owe a great deal. Everyone should read The Making of the English Working Class no matter where they’re from. And every country should have their equivalent work. (The Beresford Ellis book isn’t in the same league alas).
Back then London was a city where a bookshop like Collets with its Communist connections rubbed shoulders with the big book chains on Charing Cross Road. Of course Thompson, Hill and Williams would be just as opposed to everything the Queen stands for as any member of Eirigi.
In fact I do think it shows our fair mindedness on these matters that most of us seem slightly worried that opposing the visit could slide into Anglophobia even though most of the enthusiastically received This Weekend I’ve Been Listening To . . . feature English bands. Bands who often epitomise the same radical nonconformist tradition as Thompson and Hill. I don’t think Mark Stewart or Jon King would be particularly upset to hear that the Queen, God Bless Her, isn’t 100% welcome in Ireland.
Seeing the Irish Examiner’s “FAILTE ROMHAT” frontpage headline just reminded me of this 1816 example of sycophancy – a “Ceyd Mile Failte agus Slainte Roime” for the most gracious visit of George IV: http://imageshack.us/f/192/ceydmilefailte.jpg/ The more things change the more they stay the same.
It strikes me that despite what’s being touted as our newly-acquired national maturity, the royal family have never had anything other than a fawning reception in Ireland, and more particularly in Dublin, whether in 1912, 1900, 1816, or whenever. In fact the queen’s ancestors probably got a much warmer and less sterile welcome from the jackeens than she is experiencing right now.
Has the Irish Examiner tilted sharply to the right (what with the climate change denialism etc.) or has it always been this way, and just that no-one outside of Cork reads the thing?
Genuine question.
Interesting, rockroots, that you cite the example of the Examiner and then have a dig at Dublin in particular for the fawning reception. IMHO the reception would be pretty much the same across all parts of the Republic – a lot of people who’d be excited in a Hello! kind of way, a lot of people who’d ignore them like they’d ignore the entourage of any other head of state and a few who would actively protest either from a nationalist or anti-war perspective.
@ Joe:
“a lot of people who’d be excited in a Hello! kind of way, a lot of people who’d ignore them like they’d ignore the entourage of any other head of state and a few who would actively protest either from a nationalist or anti-war perspective.”
And then, of course, there’s those who would say that they would abstain from participating – as an act of solidarity, perhaps, or in sympathy with the oppressed – but then would probably go back on that once the itch hits.
In a article on the Queen,Kevin Myers seemed to have taken his UK History
from “Ivanhoe”:
“during the quarter of a millennium of a brutal Norman economic and cultural subjugation of the Anglo-Saxons, ordinary English people learnt to forget as a psychological survival mechanism.”
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-before-one-is-entitled-to-have-a-strong-opinion-on-historical-matters-one-must-at-least-learn-them-2648381.html
It is time to nail the idea that anyone who protests wheter actively in terms of attending protest rallies, or passively in stating their opposition but not joining the demos, is some sort of dyed in the wool irredentist nationalist. I wouldn’t be seen dead with the likes of RSF, Éirigi or some of the others. I have opposed their tribal backwoodsmen for the last two decades, yet I still oppose this visit. I have a democratic right to do so. As a socialist and a republican (not a nationalist though) I could never welcome a royal to this country, of any hue. The references in our media to “the Queen” are sickening. If it were just a normal visit by a head of state of another country it would be acceptable but the level of deference, nay, reverence, being shown to this woman and her entourage is repulsive. We have had many visits over the last few decades from UK Prime Ministers and their presence is no diferent to that of a German, French or any other prime minister. “The Queen” is being brought around like some prodigal daughter, except it is we, the Irish people, who are cast in the role of prodigals.
We have had many visits over the last few decades from UK Prime Ministers and their presence is no diferent to that of a German, French or any other prime minister.
Bingo. “The Queen” carries baggage in her own right, independent of whether or not Britain has sunk beneath the waves overnight. From James Connolly (via JJ’s link):
“We will not blame him for the crimes of his ancestors if he relinquishes the royal rights of his ancestors; but as long as he claims their rights, by virtue of descent, then, by virtue of descent, he must shoulder the responsibility for their crimes.”
Personally I’d rather throw a brick at William Hague than at Her Majesty – not that I’m promoting that kind of thing.
The response to this visit has become a confidence building event for the middle class, if you follow a search on ‘eirigi’ on twitter right now you can watch a full scale carnival of reaction in progress: ‘scumbags’, ‘tracksuits’, ‘celtic jerseys’, ‘a march from Champion sports to Dr. Quiriky’s', ‘on the dole’, ‘give them cider as a distraction’ etc etc
Yes. It takes a lot to push me to the verge of defending Eirigi, but the smug wankers on Twitter are managing it.
I think over the next few days we could all do with some cider as a distraction. Not surprised to hear that PIP, one more proof that the old chestnut about there not being a class system in this country is nonsense. Those comments are nothing but your old school snobbishness from a bunch of spoiled brats.
are you cheering on the cops,Mark?
Colm tobin the twitter-er believes that it’s a disgrace to spend taxpayers’ money on dole payments.
Presumably he believes that it’s ok to spend taxpayers’ money on a series of LANGERLAND instead.
The journey from subsidized private schools, to subsidized Trinity college, to subsidized RTE is a straight and well-trodden one for the middle classes of this country.
Whatever about the politics of Éirígí, at least we know whose side they are on.
“Colm tobin the twitter-er believes that it’s a disgrace to spend taxpayers’ money on dole payments.”
Bloody hell.
Is that the same fellow as Colm Toibin
the writer?
No, different Colm tobin. This one is behind the RTE series, LANGERLAND.
I think Harry Browne had it about right on Twitter (although you probably can add blogs, facebook,etc.):
“Twitter today is, as so often, an education in the intolerance of the liberal middle classes toward political protest.”
Like yeah right that is just such a typical thing for one of you people to say. Y’know, get a life yeah.
Damn, the mask slipped there for a second.
Freedom of speech so long as you have nothing to say, eh Eamonn?
Que?
I was merely trying to specify the precise nature of the contradiction you so manfully satirised.
You’re too good, it wasn’t really all that manful.
Were you not striving with might and main to forge in the quietude of your soul the uncreated conscience of our race?
That’s only at weekends.
Deserted Dublin streetscapes on the news a bit like the beginning of 28 Days Later with Cillian Murphy or The Omega Man with Charlton Heston.
28 days later . . . . . . Cillian Murphy emerges from his hospital bed, staring at a deserted Dublin. He finds another survivor, hiding in a corner, gazing fearfully out the window. Is she fucking gone yet?
See also the American TV hit, ‘The Sycophantic Dead.’
Coverage on BBC news of “The Visit” last night was a masterful example of journalistsic hyperbole and pure bollix. Mind you John Major (who he?) on Newsnight made some moderately intersting point (and plenty of hyperbolic bollix):
- Before the Peace Process relationships between Taoiseachs and UK Prime Ministers were “frosty” (I wonder why?)
- That, although HRH’s visit was uterly marvellous, groundbreaking, historic blah de blad, in fact the two countries were major trading partners, and had been for ages, millions of Irush or people of Irsh descent live in GB, lost of Brits in the RoI etc etc. (So “The Visit” is pretty inconsequential really!)
So basically it is all hyperbole.
Another annoying thing. Mention was made of the killing of Mountbatten, but Lizzie want to put that behind her, so the media says. Fine, but it was the Provos that did that, not the Irish state or it’s citizens, yet it came across as the visit being an act of forgiveness.
At the same time there were alot of mentiosn of the Croke Park visit and the first “Bloody Sunday”.
I escaped the Royal Wedding, but if they don’t get you one way they get you another.
Up the British (or English – whatever) Republic!
The scariest bit about that interview was that John Major hasn’t aged one bit in 14 years……
yet it came across as the visit being an act of forgiveness.
There was something in the papers a while back about a report on Lizzie’s opinion of “the Irish” thirty years ago being too toxic for release under the usual scheme of things.
Steve Bell, the Guardian’s master-cartoonist, lampoons Liz Windsor, a very unwelcome “guest of the nation” http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2011/may/18/steve-bell-cartoon-queen-ireland?INTCMP=SRCH
Symbolism in the modern age = advertising, PR.
UK = housing shortage = Demand
Ireland = housing surplus = Supply
Supply meet Demand.
UK faces housing shortage:
http://www.themovechannel.com/news/858203dc-0df3/
Kill a couple of birds with one stone, and might explain why the ‘visit’ was so long. Message Consumption of the visit is as much intended for the UK audience as for a now mature paddy. We’re supposed to be a small open-for-business economy who speak english and have with clever foresight already built extant but half empty housing estates across the country.
Far fetched I know but stranger things have been thought up by the Irish brain trust.
Sunday Independent Journalist Wins Flunkey of the Year Competition – Staunch Royalist greeted by Monarch : Kevin Myers: The ambitions of a lifetime can be realised in a single moment http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-the-ambitions-of-a-lifetime-can-be-realised-in-a-single-moment-2651318.html
That should be “Irish Independent journalist Kevin Myers” – thanks to C Rock for the correction – any other suggestions for the “Flunkey of the Year” Competition? Entrants do not have to be on the Independent Group payroll, although that may be a distinct advantage. Serving, former and wannabe Irish Presidents are not barred either.
You deserve an award for ploughing through the entirety of the Myers piece. I didn’t have the willpower to make it past the first few sentences. A few pages of the Marquis De Sade would be light reading in comparison. I would get yourself checked out for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder just to be on the safe side.
Like EamonnCork, I could not get past the first few sentences – no need!
Myers is an Indo rather than SINDO hack. At least McAleece’s performances might quieten down her fan-club who are still living off her martyrdom in RTE. ‘Wow’ my fucking arse, the most contrived shite I’ve ever seen. ‘Wow’ and as for Heaney, didn’t he once write a poem about never having raised a glass to the Queen?
Myers is the quintessential toadie. I never did understand why he and the Irish Times parted ways; they seemed the perfect match for each other.
An exceptionally funny take on Myers and herself:
http://dublinopinion.com/2011/05/18/for-services-rendered-to-the-crown/
Wasn’t it primarily due to the controversy after he defended Ed Walsh calling the children of single parents bastards that led to his leaving The Irish Times?
What I heard is that he was let go after having a go at Mary Robinson (having a go in his column, I mean).
The supreme Myers moment, from the Irish Times:
‘Myers regularly wrote in The Irish Times about the heroism of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and the 10th and 16th Irish divisions in the Great War. When the Queen nodded approvingly in his direction, he blurted out “Your Majesty”.’
You’d need a heart of stone not to laugh. Both the column and the reaction are like something from a phoenix parody of the poor amadan.
At least the presence of Henry Shefflin and Ciaran Donaghy at the ‘garden party’ tonight and Lar Corbett’s gushing meeting with HRM yesterday might shut up some of the GAA republicans for a while.