Meanwhile… back at the Seanad…

For shame! I forgot! They’re back. Two weeks now no less. And the first one filled with the simple joys of being back. So it was all self-congratulations on merely turning up.

Senator Darragh O’Brien:     I am pleased to be back. I look forward to the upcoming session….It is the first day back and we are not too restricted by time.
An Cathaoirleach:     It is the same as before.

Senator Ivana Bacik:     I join others in welcoming colleagues back. I hope that everyone has had a break over the summer and is ready for the busy and challenging term that lies ahead in which we all hope the Seanad will play a productive and valuable role and in which we will see further progress with the procedural reforms we have begun to make.

Senator Katherine Zappone:     It is good to be back, and with all colleagues.

Senator Pat O’Neill:     As previous speakers have noted, everyone is welcome back and I look forward to this session.

Then here’s Senator Leyden.

Senator Ivana Bacik:     It is extremely rich to hear Fianna Fáil Senators talking about people reneging on their election promises, given that it was that party which brought us to the situation in which we find ourselves.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The Senator cannot keep trotting out that garbage. The Labour Party and Fine Gael have a programme for Government and have reneged on practically every promise made.
(Interruptions).
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Bacik to continue, without interruption.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     As the Minister for Education and Skills said, the country is in receivership thanks to the actions of——
Senator Mark Daly:     Its Labour’s way or Frankfurt’s way. Is that the way things will be?
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Bacik to continue, without interruption.
Senator Mark Daly:     Did somebody say something about one red cent?
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I will not be lectured by Fianna Fáil Members on reneging on promises.
Senator Mark Daly:     The Labour Party and Fine Gael made promises to the people before the gneral election.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Daly, please.
Senator Mark Daly:     They made promises and have not fulfilled one of them.
An Cathaoirleach:     Can we, please, listen to Senator Bacik?
Senator Terry Leyden:     The Senator thinks she is lecturing in Trinity College at the moment.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I am on unpaid leave from Trinity College.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I thought the Senator had been made a professor.
An Cathaoirleach:     There is no need for those remarks.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am grateful to the Senator for clarification.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I remind Senator Darragh O’Brien that it was a Fianna Fáil Government which——
(Interruptions).
An Cathaoirleach:     Please allow Senator Bacik to speak without interruption.
Senator Mark Daly:     She constantly goes on about the record of the previous Government.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     Does she wish to talk about——
(Interruptions).
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Bacik has three minutes to make her case. A number of other Senators have indicated they wish to speak. Those who interrupt are eating into their own speaking time.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     It was the failed policies of the previous Government which brought the country into receivership.
Senator Mark Daly:     The Senator cannot keep going on about the record.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     That was the point I wanted to make.
Senator Mark Daly:     We can all make similar points. The Government parties made promises to the electorate which they have not fulfilled.
An Cathaoirleach:     I ask Senator Daly not to interrupt.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I wanted to respond to Senator Darragh O’Brien.
Senator Terry Leyden:     You are excited.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I am never excited as——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senators must speak through the Chair.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I find it very hard to be excited having to listen——
Senator Ivana Bacik:     Senator Leyden is far too excitable.

And it continued later:

Senator Terry Leyden:     Senator Healy Eames’s has made an interesting proposal which should be examined in detail by the Government.
I am pleased to confirm that Senator Bacik has left Trinity College on leave of absence. I welcome clarification on the issue as I had not seen any statements about it. While it is not my business, given that the Senator has been a Member of the House for four or five years, her leave of absence is a positive development.
Senator Maurice Cummins:     The Senator is correct. It is none of his business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     Senator Bacik informed me of the position — I did not ask her. Will she miss out on becoming a professor as a result of her decision, given that Trinity College is handing out professorships like snuff at a wake? Senator Norris will probably get one also.
An Cathaoirleach:     Who Senator Bacik’s employer is is a private matter which is of no concern either to the House or Senator Leyden.
Senator Terry Leyden:     The Senator made a statement on the issue to the House a while ago.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I did so in my defence.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am not interested.
An Cathaoirleach:     It is a personal matter.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     Senator Leyden is as excitable as ever.
Senator Terry Leyden:     The Senator is as exciting as ever.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does Senator Leyden have a question for the Leader?
Senator Terry Leyden:     Yes. The Government and the Fianna Fáil Party have tabled separate motions on Palestine. I am surprised and amazed that the Government is not supporting the application by Palestine to be recognised at the United Nations in September.
Senator Maurice Cummins:     The Senator should read the Government motion.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I have read it.
Senator Maurice Cummins:     The Senator should read it again.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I strongly welcome it, if it is the case that——
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Terry Leyden:     When will the Leader’s motion be put to the House? I am pleased to note, if it is the case, that the Government will support the recognition of Palestine as a state at the United Nations, bearing in mind that in 1996 I led a delegation which included the current Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, that travelled the length and breadth of Palestine with the PLO as its host. I would be disappointed to think the Government would not support this at the United Nations. I am delighted with the motion and I thank the Leader for his clarification. I have read the motion, and it specifically states Ireland will support the application by Palestine for recognition as a state at the United Nations in September.
The following week there was talk of constitutional issues – sort of:
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:     Go raibh míle maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. Tá dhá cheist gur mhaith liom a ardú. I gcomhthéacs an dráma ar fad atá ann maidir leis na hainmniúcháin do thoghchán na hUachtaránachta, sílim gur chóir dúinn díospóireacht a bheith againn maidir leis an bpróiséas sin ar fad. With the drama surrounding the nomination process for the presidential election, it might be timely for us to have a debate on political reform relating to that election in particular and the nomination process. There are different opinions on that and such a debate would be timely. The debate should also take into consideration the all-island context in that regard. For example, recently thousands of Latvians were able to vote in their national election for their president in Newry. The Government saw fit to appoint Senator Martin McAleese to the Seanad but if he was living in his home town of Belfast, he would not be allowed to vote for the next President of the country. Such a debate would be timely.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     Sinn Féin could bus a few of them down.
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:     Gabh mo leithscéal. It is a very important issue. It would be important to have such a debate while it is still in people’s minds and pertinent, in particular in regard to Articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution and the all-island nature of it.
Reference has been made to bringing in high profile individuals to speak to us in the House. Perhaps when the nominations close it would be an idea to invite the nominees to the House to give us their vision for the Presidency.
Ábhar eile gur mhaith liom a ardú— agus cuireann sé an-olc orm — ná an cheist atá ardaithe ag an tSeanadóir Ó Briain. Is é sin na híocaíochtaí seo dos na bainisteoirí contaetha. It is outrageous what we hear again today on the amounts that are being paid to county managers. The Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly, was in the House last week. He wrung his hands in response to my statement that €400,000 was being cut from the rural transport budget. He asked where we were to get the money from. On the other hand we see hundreds of thousands of euro being paid to county managers and others. It is an example of the Government leaving pensioners waiting for buses while the county managers jump on the gravy train. It is not good enough.
We are constantly told that there is not enough money in the country and that there are harsh economic realities. While the Government wrings its hands when it comes to saying “No” to the top civil servants and such types of payments, if there was a political will the payments could and should be stopped. The Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, should come to the House to explain how the Government can justify making such payments when it is telling ordinary members of the public to tighten their belts and that there is not enough money to give pensioners in rural areas money for buses to bring them to the post office.
Senator Jimmy Harte:     I am delighted to hear Senator Ó Clochartaigh refer to the all-Ireland context and calling for a vote for citizens north of the Border in the Presidential election. Would he be as keen to have people in Donegal voting in Northern Ireland or people in the south of Ireland voting in the Six Counties? I live in Donegal where the politicians in Derry are of great importance. Democracy is a two-way street but the debate is only one way——
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:     There is no debate going on. That is the issue.
Senator Jimmy Harte:     There is a debate, which we are discussing——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Harte should speak though the Chair.
Senator Jimmy Harte:     I ask Sinn Féin to consider extending the voting right in reverse so that people in the South would also have a vote in the Northern Ireland elections, specifically if there is an election for——
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:     I do not think the Unionists would agree with that.
Senator Jimmy Harte:     The Senator is very close. I am sure he could talk to the Unionists.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Jimmy Harte:     If the debate takes place in the context of an all-Ireland vote for a presidential election, people in Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Louth should be able to vote in areas that have a direct effect on funding for Northern Ireland. What happens in Derry and Tyrone impacts on Donegal, while what happens in Newry impacts on Dundalk. That is why I think it is easy to say we all want a vote.
I take particular umbrage with the Northern Ireland Minister, Conor Murphy, saying that we should change our Constitution. A Minister from another government is telling us to change our Constitution, but I do not think we would be telling the British to change their laws. Conor Murphy may have overstepped the line there, so he should withdraw the remark that we should change our Constitution to suit him. If he wants to vote here, he can register as a voter and live here, but we do not change our laws. A Minister in another government should not be telling us how our Constitution should be framed. If the debate takes place, it should be all-inclusive and not one-way traffic.
Hmmm… that’s right. Bad Conor Murphy for suggesting possible changes to the Consitution while good Jimmy Harte who calls for changes to… er… the Constitution – and arguably for British legislation as well as the terms of the GFA.

Meanwhile a few voices raised about the Palestine/Israel issue:
Senator Darragh O’Brien:
I seek clarification on the Government’s stance in regard to support for Palestinian statehood at the forthcoming UN Convention. While we have heard mixed signals, I read with interest the Tánaiste’s comments in one of the morning newspapers during his visit to the US. As was mentioned yesterday, there is a motion on the Order Paper from many Members on this side and Independents asking the Government to support the Palestinians in their quest for statehood. What is the Government’s position on this issue? It appears it will toe the European line but I hope that is not the case. All Irish Governments up to now have had a proud tradition of supporting the Palestinians. I am concerned that we seem to have rowed back somewhat given that we have been to the forefront in supporting the Palestinian cause. Anyone who read today’s The Irish Times will have seen an eviction order has been placed on a Bedouin tribe and the Israelis want to relocate them to a rubbish dump in Bethany. This is the type of government we are dealing with there. Taking unilateral action is probably the last thing the Palestinians wanted to do, but it is their last option. I hope the Government will support the Palestinians in their call for statehood.
Will the Leader clarify if we have a date for the Minister for Health to come to the House? Do we know if he is coming in within the next three to four weeks to deal with the many health issues that have been raised in this House because his silence on many of the issues has been deafening?
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I join Senator O’Brien in expressing concern about the rumour, and it is only a rumour at this stage, of prospective job losses at Aviva. The trickle of rumour leaves the employees in Aviva in an appalling position of uncertainty. Coming on the heels of the TalkTalk announcement, it gives rise to grave concern. We in the Labour group will have private Members’ time next week when we will seek to address this issue of big companies pulling out and leaving our workers in the lurch, particularly at such short notice.
I wish to take up a point raised by Senator Darragh O’Brien on Palestinian statehood. There are no mixed messages here. What the Tánaiste is seeking to do is to change the EU position because the Irish position — the Labour Party and the Government position — has always been supportive of Palestinian demands. Senator O’Brien and his colleagues will see that the Government motion, No. 14, states that Seanad Éireann reaffirms the long-standing support of the Irish Government and people for the establishment of a Palestinian state. It is more nuanced because we are approaching such a——
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     Motion No. 4 is much clearer.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     As the Senator is well aware, we are seeking to do the best we can to support the Palestinian people’s demands. Many of us individually signed the Sudaca advertisement in The Irish Times.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     As we did.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     Many of the Labour Senators, myself included, and Deputies signed it. That is a long-standing position that I and my party hold and that the Tánaiste is seeking to promote in government.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     We still do not know whether we are going to support the Palestinian call.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     We want to achieve an EU common position on that issue. That is a goal worth achieving.
Senator Thomas Byrne:     Why can we not take the lead on it?
An Cathaoirleach:     No interruptions please.
Senator Thomas Byrne:     Protect the Government.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     The Government is seeking to be careful about this, to promote the Palestinian cause in a way that is diplomatic and that tries to bring the other EU countries with us. If we cannot do that, then obviously we have to look at it again. The Tánaiste has been very fair about that.

…
Senator Paul Bradford:     I support the request by Senator Jimmy Harte for a debate on social housing. That is basically what was requested. There are tens of thousands of people on housing lists and thousands of vacant properties across the country. The rental accommodation scheme, RAS scheme, which is useful, appears to be underfunded. The rental allowance scheme is being abused in many cases. The Minister must attend the House and attempt to devise a solution to house the people of this country given that tens of thousands urgently need housing. It should not be beyond the bounds of possibility that we can resolve the problem.
I wish to comment briefly on the debate on the recognition of the state of Palestine. Most people seem to have a simplistic view on the intricate situation in the Middle East. It is politically popular and correct not just in the House but outside it to wear the Palestinian hat but there is another side to the equation, namely, Israel. I am not surprised that the case for Israel is not stated clearly in this House because both in the Oireachtas and historically in this country we chose to see no evil and hear no evil when the Jewish people were being sent to the gas chambers and concentration camps. I do not hear much about the fact that almost on a daily basis missiles are sent to Israel and people are killed. I hear little objection to the fact that one state has an avowed aim to wipe the state of Israel off the map. That is the policy of the state of Iran.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The other state is robbing land from the Palestinians.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does Senator Bradford have a question for the Leader?
Senator Paul Bradford:     I would like the House to have a substantial debate on the situation in the Middle East. I recognise the need to protect and define the Palestinian state but I also support the state of Israel. We need a substantive, inclusive and informed debate on the situation in the Middle East. I wish it were as simplistic and as simple to resolve as some of my colleagues appear to suggest.

And then… here comes Senator Leyden again.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, come to the House to explain his pre-election commitment on the retention of accident and emergency services at Roscommon County Hospital which have now been closed and to give a report to the House on the issues involved. This matter will not go away and will be neither forgiven nor forgotten as the people of County Roscommon have been badly let down. Commitments in writing were given by the Minister in advance of the general election and confirmed by the Taoiseach in The Square in Roscommon town before the election. The people of Roscommon-South Leitrim were conned, as they voted for two Fine Gael candidates, only one of whom remains in that party. The other resigned from the party and is now an Independent Member of Dáil Éireann because he could not live with the fact that he had been betrayed and, more importantly, the people of Roscommon had been betrayed by the commitments given by the Minister. If the Minister is able to visit China on a mission in the company of his private secretary, a councillor from north County Dublin and his wife——
An Cathaoirleach:     That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am unsure whether he was studying Chinese medicine, which may come into force——
An Cathaoirleach:     This is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     ——and which may be an alternative to the——
An Cathaoirleach:     This is a point the Senator can make to the Minister when he comes to the House.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I hope he will so do. Is the Cathaoirleach giving me a commitment that he will ensure——
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Terry Leyden:     I have proposed an amendment to the Order of Business and I am explaining the reasons for it. If the Minister was able to visit China, why was he not able to come to this House to explain to the electorate the commitments he had given before the general election? I note members of the Fine Gael Party in County Roscommon will meet party officials next Monday night and are considering mass resignations from the party over this issue. I do not blame them; they are absolutely right. They have also said that it will be very difficult, nearly impossible——
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Terry Leyden:     ——to canvass with Gay Mitchell for the presidential election. In fact, the Roscommon hospital action committee will accompany the candidate all over Roscommon with placards saying, “You lied, you betrayed, you let us down.” It will be a very——
An Cathaoirleach:     Do you have a question for the Leader?
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am making the point——
An Cathaoirleach:     You are out of time, Senator.
Senator Terry Leyden:     Is there a time factor?
An Cathaoirleach:     Yes, there is.
Senator Terry Leyden:     It is regrettable that this issue is coming into the presidential election and that the Labour Party and Fine Gael candidates will find themselves very unwelcome in Roscommon. West of the Shannon will be a very unhappy place for them. Under the circumstances, Gay Mitchell——-
A Senator:   Where is the Fianna Fáil candidate?
(Interruptions).
An Cathaoirleach:     You are out of time, Senator.
Senator Terry Leyden:     ——who I have great time for as a person and with whom I have served in this House and in the Dáil——
An Cathaoirleach:     I am calling Senator Moran.
(Interruptions).
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am asking for an amendment to the Order of Business which I hope Members of the House will support, namely, that the Minister comes into the House to explain his actions.

It’s as if they were never away! Though talking about self-congratulation:
Senator Mary Moran:      I too would like to welcome my colleagues back to the House and wish everyone well for the forthcoming term. It is worth noting how serious the current Government is and that we have come back two weeks earlier than normal. We are also forgoing our mid-term break and working much closer to Christmas than the previous Government insisted on. It highlights how serious we are.
Senator Thomas Byrne:     It is the same as last year.
Whether it is or isn’t one feels for the poor creatures, forced to arrive back to work after a seven, or is it a nine, week summer break. The humanity. The humanity!