Five scenes from the Seanad… Starting with a joke about the Archbishop of Paris…

I spoke too soon last week. I’d said the Seanad was a quieter more peaceable place – or words to that effect. What a difference a week makes! They’re back in feisty form now.

I: A joke…

Senator Jim D’Arcy:     A doctor came home one day to find the archbishop of Paris in bed with his wife. He took the archbishop’s cassock——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
(Interruptions).
Senator Jim D’Arcy:     Yes. The doctor put on the cassock, walked to the window and began blessing the people below in the square. The archbishop told him to come away from the window, for he looked ridiculous. The doctor replied that since the archbishop was performing his functions, he would perform the archbishop’s. I refer to this anecdote in the context of an issue of social protection.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach:     Social protection or moral protection?
Senator Jim D’Arcy:     Social protection. There has been little improvement in the time taken to process medical card applications since the centralisation of that function took place. We are told it should take 15 days to obtain a medical card if everything is in order. However, I have been contacted by many people who have experienced delays. Most recently, I heard of an application that was submitted in October, with everything in order, and resubmitted on 29 November following a request for further information. It was only after strong representations that this person’s card was finally issued yesterday.
We were assured last week that ten additional staff members would be appointed to the central processing facility to cope with the volume of work. I am not blaming the Minister for Health for these delays; it is a question of staff shortages. We must ensure the most vulnerable in society receive their medical cards without undue delay.

II: The subversion of the Constitution

Senator Ivana Bacik:     I am reminded of the Skibbereen Eagle when I hear Senator O’Brien suggest that this treaty, an international agreement among 25 member states in the EU aimed at trying to save the economic system pertaining within the EU, has been drafted to subvert Irish democracy.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     No, the Government’s position——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Bacik, without interruption.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     ——was to do everything in its power to ensure there is no referendum.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Make sure to read this one.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Bacik, without interruption.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     That is what was done.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     I think——
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The Labour Party used——
Senator Ivana Bacik:     ——we must rein in a sense of our own self-importance in this matter.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     What does that mean?
Senator Ivana Bacik:     It is preposterous to suggest this treaty is being drafted to subvert the Irish people.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     So the Senator dismisses that report out of hand.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     It is a report based on comments from an unnamed senior European official.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     Would she dismiss it out of hand?
Senator Ivana Bacik:     Yes. I will not place——
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     So the Government did not——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator O’Brien, you have spoken already. Senator Bacik, without interruption.
Senator Ivana Bacik:     We must be wary of stressing too much the reports of unnamed senior European officials.
Senator Paul Coghlan:     Hear, hear.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The Senator has changed her tune.

III: “Magda”, Social Welfare and the Labour Party and the Catholic Church

Senator Rónán Mullen:     The following text is of interest:

Do I feel bad about living on benefits? Certainly! I don’t want to live at the Government’s cost, which is why I treat this help as an opportunity to start my own business.”

This is an accurate report of comments made by a lady called Magda, who we all heard about yesterday. It appears an article in a Polish newspaper was seriously misrepresented in one of our national newspapers yesterday. I commend Senator O’Keeffe on what she said about ethical journalism. It is instructive for us to think for a moment about what happened. One of our colleagues, Senator Harte, spoke eloquently on national radio yesterday criticising this person for her views and I am sure he did so in good faith. If it had not been for that media misrepresentation, he would not have gone on the programme and said what he did. That is how the media does a disservice at times to the public.
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     Hear, hear.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     Incidents like this one contribute to a lack of trust in the important institution that is our media. There is a crisis in many of our institutions. We should reflect on the need not to knock our institutions but to build them up through constructive criticism. In light of this latest event, I would welcome that debate on media standards in this House. It is useful to note also a very welcome initiative from the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, which has launched a public consultation on a draft code of fairness, objectivity and impartiality in news and current affairs in the broadcast media. Many of us spoke about the Fr. Kevin Reynolds case several months ago. The deadline for submitting responses to that is 14 March 2012. I hope to make a submission. Perhaps the Houses, or committees of the Houses, should consider making submissions. Given the concerns about media standards often expressed by Members on different sides of this House, I believe submissions should come from the world of politics to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland on this draft code.
Speaking of inflammatory comments, I briefly refer to another recommendation made recently. It was that all senior official appointments to State bodies that are likely to have to deal with the Catholic Church should be screened to ensure that they will not show inappropriate deference to the Catholic Church. Those who feel they are Catholic first and Irish second should seek promotion in other organs of the State. This recommendation, bizarrely, is on the clár of a forthcoming Labour Party conference, having been put down by the Clontarf branch in Dublin North Central.
An Cathaoirleach:     The Labour Party conference has nothing to do with the Order of Business.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     I am asking the Leader and the deputy leader whether they agree with me. I have written to Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, who is Vice Chairman of the Joint Committee on Education and Skills, and I have had a courteous response from him. He says he agrees with the report, which surprises me, although he disagrees with that statement. He makes the excuse that the statement is ironic. At one level it certainly is ironic. Would the Leader and deputy leader agree that if such a recommendation were made about gay people – and similar sentiments were expressed about Jews and communists in the past – or about members of the Anglican Communion, there would be outrage? Would they agree with me that the motion should not have made it on to the clár of the Labour Party conference and now that it is there that it deserves to be condemned in the roundest terms by participants at the conference?
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Mullen, that is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     This is a serious issue.
An Cathaoirleach:     It has nothing to do with the Order of Business.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     Ceist an-láidir í seo. Baineann sé leis an leas poiblí agus leis an dearcadh atá ag daoine i leith ghrúpaíéagsúla inár sochaí. This is about the attitude to different groups of people in our society.
Senator Cáit Keane:     Ní bhaineann sé le Riar na hOibre,
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator, you are over time.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     I did not hear what Senator Keane said. This is about attitudes to different groups and sectors in our society. Political parties, like the media, need to show responsibility in their public utterances. That is why this is a relevant issue which I bring before the House this morning.

III: In a serious manner the Seanad considers Europe

Senator Martin Conway:     I reiterate the call I made yesterday for the Attorney General to make an early opinion available as to whether a referendum is necessary. While the Government does an excellent job and punches way beyond its weight in Europe I do not believe we are so influential that we can dictate the text of a European treaty to suit ourselves.
Senator Thomas Byrne:     That is what negotiations are for.
Senator Martin Conway:     I call on cool heads to prevail and to await an early opinion from the Attorney General.
I also have a slight concern about the management of the mass redundancies within the public sector. I wish well in their retirement to the 7,000 to 8,000 people who have decided to go. I ask the Leader to facilitate the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to come to the House for a question and answer session on what crisis management systems are in place. I have no doubt there is a rapid response team in place to ensure that the flexibility we are told is available and that is part of the Croke Park agreement will kick into force. This will be a defining moment on the Croke Park agreement as to whether it does what it is supposed to do and creates the flexibility.
It is also important to remember that for every 100 public servants only three are retiring — there are still 97 left. We are a country of 4 million people. Surely to God, 97 out of every 100 can be flexible enough to ensure that people will not be affected on the front line. I call on the Leader to facilitate an early question and answer session with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am delighted that Senator Conway is quoting our spokesperson, Deputy Sean Fleming, who spoke this morning on “Morning Ireland”.
Senator Martin Conway:     It is nothing to do with Fianna Fáil’s spokesman. It is a fact.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am pleased that he got the facts.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Leyden should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Senator Martin Conway:     My name was mentioned. I stated fact.

Senator Terry Leyden:     Senator Conway was lucky to get a mention.
Senator Martin Conway:     I am honoured.
Senator Terry Leyden:     The Irish Times today exposes the situation on the proposed treaty. The people should be given an opportunity. With respect to the Cathaoirleach’s town, the Taoiseach did not bring home the bacon. He did not bring anything home. The treaty is only endorsing the austerity measures that are currently in place.
Senator Michael Mullins:     Senator Leyden cannot have it both ways.
Senator Terry Leyden:     We do not have an agreement to burn the bondholders. What about “not a cent more” and “Labour’s way or Frankfurt’s way”? Obviously it is Frankfurt’s way.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     There was no sign of Senator Leyden during the previous referendum.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Leyden should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I have read the fourth draft and the final draft of the treaty.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Good man. Senator Leyden was lucky it was only 15 pages.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I have compared the wording, which is quite important.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Leyden is inviting cross-fire.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am fully briefed.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     There are only 15 pages in this treaty. Fianna Fáil did not bother with the previous treaty because it was too big.
An Cathaoirleach:     Please, Senator Sheahan.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I was fully briefed by the Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore, on the details of this treaty. We are quite familiar with it. I would like the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, to come to the House to explain why he signed the treaty and why there was not a better deal for this country.
I agree with Senator Norris on the audience the Taoiseach had in Davos in Switzerland. He should have told them that they went mad lending us such money at those percentages at that time.
Senator Paul Bradford:     Fianna Fáil went mad.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I commend the work being done on the “Vincent Browne Show” at the moment to forensically——
An Cathaoirleach:     That is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am sorry.
An Cathaoirleach:     We cannot have commercials on the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     From an educational perspective——
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Senator Leyden must have an invitation from Vincent.
An Cathaoirleach:     We cannot have commercials on the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     In relation to——
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Senator Leyden and Gorbachev or whatever his name is——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Leyden should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Senator Terry Leyden:     In regard to public broadcasting, last night “Prime Time” had an excellent debate between——
(Interruptions).
An Cathaoirleach:     Members should allow Senator Leyden to contribute.
Senator Terry Leyden:     There was an excellent debate last night on “Prime Time” between the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, and Deputy Michael McGrath. On Vincent Browne’s show on both Monday night——
Senator Tom Sheahan:     It is “The Front Line”.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I am being interrupted.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Sheahan should be silent.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     He is getting mixed up in his own argument.
Senator Terry Leyden:     We are paying a licence fee to RTE but without the licence fee TV3 is forensically examining the treaty and giving people an opportunity to see what is in it. I commend it on this educational process.
Senator Paul Bradford:     Senator Leyden never ceases to amaze me or amuse me, as he did his colleagues last week in the Council of Europe when he almost tripped over himself as he rushed to embrace and congratulate Mr. David Cameron, I am not sure on what, but perhaps Senator Leyden might inform the House what words of praise he imparted to Mr. David Cameron.

Yeah, I guess that might be interesting.

IV: Looking North

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:     Ní hé an reifreann seo an t-aon reifreann a raibh caint air le linn an deireadh seachtaine. Go deimhin, bhí díospóireacht ag tosnú maidir le reifreann ó thaobh aontacht na hÉireann chomh maith. The potential referendum on the new EU treaty is not the only referendum that has been discussed in the broader public domain recently. Senator Paul Bradford referred to the possibility of a plebiscite on the future status of Northern Ireland, an issue which should form part of the debate we have called for on Northern Ireland.
We have seen several significant developments in recent times, with the First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson, recently attending a GAA match and the Deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness, undertaking to attend a Northern Ireland match and support the players in green jerseys. In addition, the announcement that Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann will be held for the first time in the Six Counties, in Derry, is very welcome. The presentations to this House by Ms Mary Robinson and Mr. Maurice Manning were fantastic occasions. It was mentioned in the early days of this Seanad that we might invite the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to the Chamber. Such an invitation would be an ideal context for the debate on the future of Northern Ireland. It would give us an opportunity to discuss all of the useful co-operation that is taking place. There is some fantastic co-operation taking place in respect of waterways, agriculture, sport, culture, language and so on. It would be fitting to convey this to the First Minister and to do so in the context of a debate with him in this House on Northern Ireland and the future of this island. We could also during such debate discuss the possibility of a united Ireland and a referendum in that regard. Ba mhaith liom iarraidh arís ar an gCeannaire soiléiriú a thabhairt dúinn an bhfuil an cuireadh sin tugtha cheana don Chéad Aire agus don Leas-Chéad Aire, agus muna bhfuil, an bhfuil sé i gceist aige sin a dhéanamh agus cén sórt scála ama atá i gceist?
*******
Senator Tom Sheahan:     I support Senator Ó Clochartaigh’s suggestion that the First Minister and Deputy First Minister be invited to this House.
An Cathaoirleach:     The Senator can take up that matter with the Leader.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     They might be able to explain to us how many schools are being closed in the North of Ireland, how many teachers are being made redundant and what cuts are being introduced there.
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:     Senator Sheahan is misinformed.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Are members of the Fianna Fáil Party in this House refusing to accept the judgment of the Attorney General prior to her making it?
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     That is not the case.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Thomas Byrne:     It will not be decided by the Attorney General.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Sheahan without interruption, please.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     They are making allegations. As stated by a colleague on this side, they are jumping on the band wagon.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Yes. Fianna Fáil is, prior to the Attorney General making her decision——
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     On a point of order, Fianna Fáil has not said that.
An Cathaoirleach:     That is not a point of order.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     Fianna Fáil is a pro-Europe party.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator O’Brien is eating into the time of other Senators. A number of Senators have indicated their wish to speak.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The allegation made by Senator Sheahan is incorrect.
An Cathaoirleach:     I call Senator Sheahan who must ask a question of the Leader.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     I ask Fianna Fáil to wait until the Attorney General has made her decision.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does Senator Sheahan have a question for the Leader?
Senator Tom Sheahan:     Yes. Sinn Féin has stated that it will take the matter to the Supreme Court. That party has never accepted any legal decision in any court of law, except for the decision last year in respect of the by-election.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Tom Sheahan:     The question that must be asked is from where does that party get the money to take matters before the Supreme Court?
(Interruptions).
Senator Tom Sheahan:     I ask that the Leader arrange for an early debate on diabetes.

V: More on Magda and a certain Senator – Part I

Senator Marie Moloney: [LP]     I wish to refer to an article on the front page of a national newspaper today that gives the impression that living on social welfare is a life of luxury.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, claimed it was a lifestyle choice.
An Cathaoirleach:     Through the Chair, please.
Senator Marie Moloney:     The article gives the impression of a lifestyle that is like an “Hawaiian massage”, but this could not be further from the truth. For the many people living on social welfare alone, it is not a life of luxury. The individual in question obviously does not have many overheads, for example, children attending school or college or a car on which she needs to pay insurance or tax. It is not a fair or balanced article. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Social Protection to refute some of the statements made in the article and let the people of Ireland know that it is not a life of luxury? Working people will be annoyed by the suggestion that, while they are working and paying their way, people living on social welfare are having such wonderful lives.
******

An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Jimmy Harte: [LP]     Senator Moloney referred to an article in today’s Irish Independent regarding a Polish national living in Donegal. I wish to place on record my belief that the words attributed to this individual in the article in question do a disservice to Polish people who live in Donegal. It was indicated that she referred to the town in which she resides as a “s***hole”. That attitude is disgusting. In an interview on Highland Radio earlier this morning, the Polish ambassador to Ireland stated that the article was distasteful and that he did not have much time for the person who made the remarks it contained. Anyone who refers to a town in Donegal in the way outlined does not deserve to live there. As everyone is aware, Donegal is the most beautiful county in the country. It is important to clarify that the person who was the subject of the newspaper article in question was not speaking on behalf of the Polish community but rather on her own behalf. I would welcome her exit from this country because of her attitude and not because——
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     Hold on now.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does Senator Harte have a question for the Leader? The time for the Order of Business is exhausted.
Senator Jimmy Harte:     Anyone who calls a town in Donegal a “shithole” and who is living there should leave. I make no apology for what I have said because people from elsewhere would object to their counties or the towns they contain being referred to in that way.
Senator David Cullinane:     Asking someone to leave the country is outrageous.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Harte is out of time. I call Senator Ó Domhnaill.

V: More on Magda and a certain Senator – Part II

Senator Terry Leyden:     I second the amendment to the Order of Business calling for a debate on unemployment. The proposal to invite the Pope to visit Ireland is a separate matter, as far as I am aware. I have signed a petition, at the invitation of Senator Jim Walsh, to send an invitation to the Pope. I hope he will accept it and come. It will be a marvellous boost to the country if he does.
Will the Leader allow time for a debate on broadcasting? I will not accept ridicule from any side of the House regarding the very important issue of information to the public from our broadcasters. RTE is not providing for proper debate on the proposed EU treaty. Whether a referendum is held, the treaty has been signed and will come, as a Bill, to the House and be debated. Last night TV3, which does not receive a subsidy from our €160 licence fee, broadcast a third discussion on the treaty. Our excellent Senator Thomas Byrne, Deputy Mary Lou McDonald, Deputy Stephen Donnelly and the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Lucinda Creighton, all spoke eloquently—–
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator, that is a matter for the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, not for the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden:     It is a matter for this House. The House passed the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland legislation. We have a responsibility to review any legislation in each regard.
An Cathaoirleach:     When the Bill comes before the House the debate will be broadcast live on UPC. All our proceedings are being recorded.
Senator Terry Leyden:     Last night’s debate on TV3 was significant and I was very proud of our representative, who spoke very eloquently in this regard.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator, do you have a question for the Leader?
Senator Terry Leyden:     I have a very serious question for the Leader. I ask him to have a debate on the responsibility of our national broadcaster to provide time to debate one of the most important issues of the day. On an independent television station, the “Tonight with Vincent Browne” programme spent three nights on excellent discussions on the treaty, teasing out every issue, while RTE gave ten minutes to it this week.
I ask Senator Jimmy Harte to come to the House to apologise—–
An Cathaoirleach:     We do not speak about Senators who are not present.
Senator Terry Leyden:     —–to “Magda”. He has caused terrible division between the Polish and Irish communities.
Senator David Cullinane:     Hear, hear. It was disgraceful.
Senator Terry Leyden:     The Polish people are playing a very important role in Ireland and they are extremely hurt. Senator Harte is a Labour Party Senator.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator, you are over time.
Senator Terry Leyden:     Senator Harte tweeted all night last night. You should read his tweets, a Chathaoirligh. I hope the Labour Party, and the Labour Party whip, will look at this situation. It is very serious and is not flippant.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator, have you a question for the Leader? You are over time.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I have two questions.
An Cathaoirleach:     You are out of time.
Senator Terry Leyden:     I would like to put a question to you, a Chathaoirligh. We are having debates on the European Union at present. Why has the European Union flag been removed from this Chamber?
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator, you are very observant.
Senator David Cullinane:     We did not take it.
****

Senator David Cullinane:     I join Senator O’Keeffe and a number of previous speakers who have called for a debate on ethical journalism. The Leader has said he has scheduled time to discuss this important issue. Such a debate is timely, in the wake of the article in the Irish Independent yesterday which has been raised by a number of other Senators. This article was deliberate. Its intention was to stoke up anti-social welfare and anti-immigrant sentiment. It was shameful. Even if they apologised, they should hang their heads in shame. They knew exactly what they were seeking to do. Let us be very clear, this was an attempt to stoke up tension. One could go further and say it was an attempt to incite hatred. Articles such as this should not appear in national newspapers.
The Senator who raised the issue yesterday in this House is absent. His comments yesterday were shameful—–
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Cullinane, we do not refer to Senators who are absent from the House.
Senator David Cullinane:     I will make the point. I will not refer to him again. There is a reason he is absent from the House today.
An Cathaoirleach:     I ask the Senator to—–
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     Senator Cullinane does not know that.
Senator David Cullinane:     There is a reason for his absence.
Senator Tom Sheahan:     That is a cheap shot.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Cullinane, I will have to call another Senator.
Senator David Cullinane:     What was a cheap shot was for somebody to come into this House yesterday and say that a Polish national should be expelled from this country, should be asked to leave this country. That was a cheap shot and that is the point. I do not believe this view reflects the Labour Party’s views.
An Cathaoirleach:     Has the Senator a question for the Leader?
Senator David Cullinane:     Yes, I have. I want to ask the Leader whether he supports me and whether he supports a call from Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin of the Labour Party when he called for a proper debate on integration in this country and a celebration of multiculturalism. That is what the Labour Party stands for and not what was said in this House yesterday by one member of that party. It is important that we, as elected representatives, do not feed into an agenda which is to stoke up anti-immigrant and anti-social welfare sentiment. It is wrong and it must be challenged.
An Cathaoirleach:     A question for the Leader, please Senator.
Senator David Cullinane:     Does the Leader agree that we should have a debate in this House on immigration and multiculturalism and a celebration of same?
Senator Paul Coghlan:     Senator Byrne’s concerns regarding No. 6 are appreciated and the bona fides of everybody who signed that motion are accepted.