Five scenes from the Seanad… That Embassy, waste collection and more…

A few topics have been predominant throughout the last week. Not that any great light has been shed on them…

Scene I: A visit from a Very Important Person from China… and something or another about human rights!

Senator Rónán Mullen:     Yesterday Senator Bacik took issue with me for questioning the Tánaiste’s bad judgment. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to his good judgment on one particular issue.
I note that, unlike the Taoiseach, it is likely he will raise human rights issues when he meets the Chinese Vice President, Mr. Xi Jinping, this weekend. However, I regret to learn that there is no provision for questions from the media to the Chinese leader. This man will become President of the People’s Republic of China next year and I regret to learn that the Taoiseach has no intention of raising such issues. At a time when we are economically vulnerable, it would be easy to give in to arguments that we should pipe down and simply take whatever economic friendship is being offered. However, Ireland must not lose its soul when it comes to being a courageous voice for human rights and human dignity. The Tánaiste should take a leaf from the book of the actor, Christian Bale, who recently tried to visit Chen Guangcheng, a man who is blind but who sees more than most. He helped to expose the practice of forced abortion in parts of rural China and for his courage was imprisoned. Moreover, he and his wife were reportedly beaten recently when human rights groups released videos showing intense police surveillance of his home. This is part of the daily reality for many in China. It is important, therefore, that Ireland as a small country maintain its voice.
Incidentally, standing up for people in the developing world and human rights is an issue on which there has been constructive co-operation with the Holy See during the years. While I understand the Government’s embarrassment on the issue, I seek an assurance from the Tánaiste that he is raising with the Vatican the possibility of the co-location of embassies. Has he formally raised this issue and, if not, when will he so do? This is a useful specific question that should be asked and he need not come into the House to answer it, as Members would gladly receive a report from the Leader or Deputy Leader.
Senator Maurice Cummins:     I will give the Senator the answer now.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Rónán Mullen to continue, without interruption.
Senator Rónán Mullen:     Has the Tánaiste already done so or when will he raise the specific issue of the possible co-location of embassies, as distinct from having just one ambassador which everyone agrees is not a runner? However, on the possibility of having two ambassadors operating from the same residence, has this question being asked of the Vatican and, if not, when will it be?
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     Members are probably not fully aware of or do not fully realise the significance of the visit to Ireland this weekend by the Chinese Vice President, Mr. Xi Jinping. I look forward to meeting him on Monday in the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham, at the China Investment Forum. Moreover, I hope a bilateral investment agreement will be signed this weekend between our two countries to attract foreign direct investment from China. This mechanism is in place in countries such as the United Kingdom, Germany and France which are benefiting hugely from it. Trade and investment between our two countries does matter. In response to Senator Rónán Mullen, this is the ideal way to build relations on a human rights front also. One achieves nothing unless one is in a relationship——
Senator Rónán Mullen:     I agree.
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     ——which is the way forward. It is an event of huge significance. I compliment the Government, in particular the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, on the programme of activities laid on this weekend for Mr. Xi Jinping and his 150 strong delegation.
Senator Paschal Mooney:     Perhaps it might be shared with the Opposition.
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     It includes events such as a rendition of “Riverdance”— I almost said “dinner dance”
Senator Paschal Mooney:     I am sure that will happen also.
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     In addition, Mr. Xi Jinping will visit Croke Park to see our national games.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Paschal Mooney:     No, a Chathaoirligh, being in opposition, Members are delighted with the information provided.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Fidelma Healy Eames to continue, without interruption.
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     Members must keep China on the agenda of the Seanad. Following the visit the Leader should arrange a major debate on how relations between Ireland and China are being advanced. On 23 March I am due to host a conference in NUI Galway on this very issue. This story——
An Cathaoirleach:     As there can be no advertisements in the House, I ask the Senator to conclude.
(Interruptions).
Senator Paschal Mooney:     This is wonderful news. The Senator should tell Members more.
An Cathaoirleach:     I ask Senator Fidelma Healy Eames to conclude as she is over time.
Senator Fidelma Healy Eames:     This story will go on.
Senator Paschal Mooney:     Tell us more.

Scene II: Secularism and…

Senator Paschal Mooney:     I second the proposal of an amendment to the Order of Business. On a related theme, what has motivated this campaign is the aggressive secularism expressed by some members of the Labour Party? It is interesting that the president of the British National Secular Society recently called upon the former Fine Gael candidate, Mr. John Colgan, to withdraw his complaint to the Garda Síochána with regard to a homily by Bishop Boyce——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Walsh, you know well that you are not supposed to name a private individual in the House.
Senator Paschal Mooney:     It is well established in the media anyway.
An Cathaoirleach:     It is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Senator Paschal Mooney:     A former Fine Gael candidate——
An Cathaoirleach:     Have you a question for the Leader?
Senator Paschal Mooney:     ——made a complaint which the president of the British National Secular Society said was utterly ridiculous and that it should be withdrawn——
An Cathaoirleach:     Have you a question for the Leader?
Senator Paschal Mooney:     Yes, I ask the Leader for a debate on these issues. I ask that the Minister for Justice and Equality be invited to attend. What is happening as a consequence is that Garda time is being frivolously wasted. The Garda Síochána has sent a file to the Director of Public Prosecutions. This is a terrible abuse of time——
An Cathaoirleach:     That issue should not be raised on the Order of Business.
Senator Paschal Mooney:     ——considering the number of crimes and organised criminal gangs in Dublin. People are being murdered almost daily and the time of the Garda and the DPP is being wasted on issues where people of a particular ideological bent are using and abusing the system.
An Cathaoirleach:     As you well know, the DPP is an independent office.
Senator Paschal Mooney:     I am not complaining about the DPP, and you well know it, a Chathaoirligh. I am complaining about the people who are using the system to promote their own minority ideological views and wasting public services that are charged with much more serious responsibilities than these issues. I ask that we would have a debate in the House about the management of Garda time and the management of these matters within the public service.
An Cathaoirleach:     You are completely out of order. I call Senator Keane.

Scene III: That Vatican Embassy and…Dublin City Council Waste woes…

Senator David Norris:     I revert to a matter ventilated in the House yesterday, the review of embassies and, in particular, representation at the Vatican. I strongly support the work of the diplomatic corps. Ireland is extremely well served by it, although it is small when compared with that of other states such as the Netherlands. It does very good work and we get good value from it. As for the Vatican, I understand the new papal nuncio will present his credentials to President Higgins today. I welcome him and hope he will have a successful tour of duty here. I understand he is a close confidant and associate of Pope Benedict XVI, which shows the seriousness with which the Vatican is taking its relations with Ireland. However, charges were made on this side of this House yesterday against the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, to the effect that there was a personal vendetta that was ideologically driven against the Vatican and he personally had selected the embasssy for closure. However, in the Dáil yesterday Deputy Micheál Martin blew the whistle on that suggestion when he indicated that precisely the same three targets had been presented to him but that he had turned them down. While he may have turned them down, this indicates clearly that the list pre-existed the formation of the current Administration and the remarks made should be withdrawn. They were obviously factually wrong and perhaps ideologically driven.
This morning the former Fianna Fáil Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. David Andrews, appeared on Newstalk. He is a man who has appeared in this House and showed great independence of mind and courage on the situation in Timor Leste. He also spoke about the strength of the diplomatic corps but stated that, on practical grounds, he considered having one embassy in Rome was correct. His is a voice that also should be listened to. Moreover, he started from a philosophical view that I also have brought forward in the House on the question of whether a church should also be a state. I will quote from the gospel according to Mark, chapter 12, which is echoed in the gospel according to Luke, chapter 20, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s”. I believe in the separation of church and state and this presents a great moral difficulty for the Roman Catholic Church.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator David Norris:     I seek a debate on the subject.
I refer to the question of bin collection by Greyhound. This is a very serious matter.
Senator Denis Landy:     That is the fourth matter raised by the Senator.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     As leader of a group, he is allowed.
An Cathaoirleach:     Yes.
Senator David Norris:     I thank Senator Denis Landy. I will be brief. I am concerned about this matter because I myself have received completely contradictory notices from the Greyhound company as to the day on which I should leave out the bins. Everyone is in a mess and there does not appear to have been a proper tendering process. The company has a bad record and was obliged to repay money to CIE. In addition, the council members had their view overturned by the diktat of the city manager——
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     A Labour Party Lord Mayor.
Senator David Norris:     The elected representatives were not listened to. Moreover——
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The Labour Party Lord Mayor, Councillor Montague, is on his bike.
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Norris to continue, without interruption.
Senator David Norris:     I seek a debate on this serious issue, particularly in the light of the waste of money. I understand Ernst & Young had its services secured, at a cost of a €250,000 to provide a list. I could do it in half an hour. Someone should, please, appoint me as a consultant, as I could do with €250,000. Moreover, I would do the job efficiently and for less. Next time, let the council seek tenders. I will provide such a list and while I will not charge the council €250,000, I will charge it a good fat fee.

Scene IV: The quality of debate in the Second Chamber is…er…

An Cathaoirleach:     A question, please.
Senator Denis Landy:     I wish to clarify that the members of Dublin City Council have no role in respect of the collection of waste.
Senator Darragh O’Brien:     The Senator should stop. They passed the budget.
Senator Thomas Byrne:     Go away out of that, Senator Landy.
Senator Denis Landy:     It was an executive function that was taken away from the elected representatives by the former Fianna Fáil Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Mr. Martin Cullen.
An Cathaoirleach:     Does Senator Landy have a question for the Leader?
Senator Denis Landy:     It was a disgraceful act on the part of Mr. Cullen to take away the role of local councillors in respect of the collection of waste and we can now see——
(Interruptions).
An Cathaoirleach:     Does Senator Landy have a question for the Leader.
Senator Denis Landy:     Yes. I am going to ask it in a moment. I just want to reply to the Senators across——
An Cathaoirleach:     Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Senator Denis Landy:     Yes. My question relates to people being fined for not displaying national car test, NCT, certificates on their cars. If a traffic warden places a ticket on a car in respect of the non-display of an NCT certificate, he or she is doing so without knowing whether the owner of the vehicle has actually applied to have the test carried out. Traffic wardens are not in a position to check computer records in order to discover whether a test has been applied for. As a result, people are being fined in respect of the non-display of NCT certificates when some of them have evidence — either written or in the form of a mobile phone text — that they have applied to have their vehicles tested. When these cases go to court, they are thrown out by judges. This means that the time of traffic wardens, the courts and judges is being wasted. Under the Road Traffic Act 2010, road traffic wardens were given responsibility for checking whether people are displaying NCT certificates on their cars. However, they lack the equipment necessary to allow them to do the job properly. I request, therefore, that the legislation be amended.

Scene V: Jim D’arcy of Fine Gael is back almost doing what he does best…

Senator David Cullinane:     I wish to seek a debate on the household charge. We have not had such a debate since the charge was introduced. It is clear to many people that not only is this charge unfair but that it is also deeply unpopular. The Leader will be aware that Waterford City Council passed a motion against the household charge on an eight to five basis. Many people are not registering for it and are not paying the charge. This is not because they want to break the law, it is simply due to the fact that they cannot afford to pay. People believe they are getting the thin end of the wedge and that the charge will continue to rise and will be followed by water and all sorts of other charges. I have been asked whether the Government intends to amend the Fines Act in respect of people who are brought to court because they cannot afford to pay the household charge. Is it planned to amend that Act in order that any fines can be deducted directly from people’s social welfare payments or wages? It would be disgraceful if this were to happen. Trying to force people to register to pay a charge they believe to be unfair is nothing short of bully-boy tactics on the part of the Government.
Senator John Gilroy:     It will be——
An Cathaoirleach:     Senator Cullinane, without interruption.
Senator David Cullinane:     The figures indicate that people are simply not registering for this charge. The household charge is unfair and unpopular.
Senator John Gilroy:     Everything is unpopular to Sinn Féin.
Senator David Cullinane:     People perceive the household charge as an opportunity for them, as individuals, to take a stand and to state to the Government that it will not get their money to either pay back bondholders or to waste on something else.
Senator John Gilroy:     The money in question is going to local authorities.
Senator David Cullinane:     Those in government should put their hands up and state that they got it wrong and that it is not fair to inform someone who receives €300 per week that he or she should pay the same amount as someone who earns €3,000 per week. Likewise, a person who lives in a two-bedroom house should not be obliged to pay the same amount as someone who lives in a mansion. The Government should admit its mistake and then bring forward its plans for a so-called progressive property tax in order that we might examine them. This flat, regressive €100 charge should be abolished. Does the Government intend to amend the Fines Act? If it does, when will amending legislation be brought forward. Does the Leader agree that the household charge is both unfair and regressive?
Senator Jim D’Arcy:     Sinn Féin is the only party in Europe which is opposed to the property——
An Cathaoirleach:     I call Senator Sheahan.