More on Waste collection in Dublin… March 2, 2012
Posted by WorldbyStorm in Irish Politics.trackback
What is the word that comes to mind when one reads more comments reported in the Irish Times from Michael Buckley, chief executive of Greyhound, as regards waste collection services in Dublin? What is the word?
While one tries to find an appropriate term here’s some quotes:
“I’m running a business and I can’t afford to provide free bins. If I was to start doing that I have to go to my paying customers to ask them to pay more to subsidise the people who aren’t paying,” he said.
“When you go into Tesco is there a waiver aisle? When you go into the petrol station is there a waiver pump? Private businesses don’t do business for free, the best we can do is give you the best price in the marketplace.”
Hold on a second. Firstly waste collection is a societal good and a public service [paid for or not]. Secondly there is no such thing as a developed marketplace for collection – and indeed arguably couldn’t be given the limitations and constraints of having to collect bins [the environmental impact of competing fleets of bin trucks haring around housing estates is never mentioned in all this but presumably near duplication of services isn't the best, or indeed the most efficient, way of addressing these matters]. So applying a commercial model to a service provision that is entirely necessary for the smooth functioning of ordinary life, commerce and so on is entirely inappropriate. And the ‘marketplace’ in this instance is an entirely notional and artificial concept.
But now there’s more. A 16 per cent plus increase in lift charges.
Landfill levies will increase from €50 to €65 a tonne in July. Mr Buckley said the company would pass that increase on to customers through the “per-lift” charge, not the standing charge. The lift charge for the standard grey bin, currently €6, would rise by about €1, or just under 17 per cent. Similar percentage increases are likely for other bins
He continues:
A lot of the negative publicity had been generated by people who did not want to pay their bills, he said.
That’s simply incorrect. The negative publicity has been generated by Greyhound’s palpable inability to provide the service they had been ‘sold’, the lack of advance warning from Council or Greyhound, and very reasonable anxieties given the history of Greyhound as articulated by Shane Ross and others as to the nature of the sale and the service.
And even when Buckley attempts to shift blame he makes the situation worse:
However he said much of the criticism of the company was unjustified. “Politicians have been kicking this around, making unjustified comments like it’s been a shambles and chaotic. When you look into the facts, the service has bedded down now and we’re in the high 99 percentiles in terms of collection rates.”
There was a problem with some 22,000 customers who were using bags instead of bins. Greyhound did not have a database of residents using bags and so some streets were missed. Between 80 and 90 per cent of complaints related to bags left uncollected or bag customers not receiving information, but these issues had been resolved, he said.
This is bizarre. A company takes over a service and ‘misses’ streets?
And there’s this:
The entire waste collection model could change next year, Mr Buckley said, to pay-by-weight, if it was what customers wanted. “In my view, the fairest way is that the highest user pays the most, the lowest user pays the least.”
This is a dismal analysis. It ignores ability to pay, different life circumstances – anyone with babies or small children will know that quantities of waste increase rapidly in those circumstances and so on. It echoes Stephen Collins approach some weeks back on the same topic.
And of course, for the MD of a waste collection company to be making it is profoundly self-serving.
But worse it slots neatly into a discourse whereby ‘customers’ pay for services, but where intrinsically costs for those on lowest or low to medium incomes proportionately greater than for those on higher incomes.
One can argue that Buckley is [inadvertently] being honest to a fault about a particular style of business and that is true. One can feel queasy about giving any money at all companies that pursue certain approaches to business, but for most of us there’s no choice at all. But there is worse.
What’s particularly striking is the lack of a mechanism imposed by state or by local government to oversee the provision of waste collection. What we appear to have is a situation where a private company in a very opaque manner was ‘sold’ the collection ‘business’ and now local and state government has relinquished all oversight. Waste collection companies now to exist in a context where they can pretty much do as they see fit. And so, they are doing pretty much as they see fit.
What’s most telling is how little this seems to impact at national level. The Government, and the local franchise of the Socialist International who are a part of it, seem remarkably unmoved by all this. Why?

“What is the word that comes to mind when one reads more comments reported in the Irish Times from Michael Buckley, chief executive of Greyhound…?” Bollix.
Beside the article referred to here, there is another one ( http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0301/1224312582895.html ) on the same page in which Buckley expounds further. The final paragraph is this quote from him:
“With the council you had a situation where truck drivers would finish after 2½ hours. One area where we would deliver large cost savings is in getting the guys to do a full day’s work.”
There is no logical, pragmatic reason for privatisation; the policy is based on ideology and is a direct attack on working class living standards.
-Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Pat Rabbitte has said he would prefer to see more money go towards investment from the sale of state assets….
“I would like to see more money for investment,” Mr Rabbitte said. “I would like to see for example monies available for investment in broadband and next-generation access.”
So because of the Eircom privatisation there is underinvestment in broadband. The solution? More privatisation and invest the proceeds in broadband. What a phony argument. Has Pat Rabbitte no sense of irony?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/rabbitte-wants-more-state-asset-sale-money-for-investment-541290.html
I live on one of those streets that Greyhound apparently didn’t know about – someone want to point them to Google maps? – and the service has been disgraceful: 4 collections out of 7 since the changeover, days late, one Green bin collection (which, seeing as Greyhound have had the green bins for years, you have to wonder how they ‘forgot’ when it came to the bags).
I emailed every local councilor after running out of patience with all the very polite but clueless Cork people in Greyhound’s ‘customer’ care centre, and got one reply so far, from Christy Burke:
Hi .Can i tell you that i did try to stop this handover i could not ,I voted against the changeover I will continue to do so .Now as a Cllr I dont have the power to change it .
Which leads one to wonder why on earth they don’t have the power to change anything and why we even continue with the charade of local government?
I would be interested if anyone with legal experience thinks there is any scope to sue Greyhound for failure to perform, or DCC for failure to ensure that rubbish is collected – have they a statutory duty to do this?
Yep, similar experience. Bags/bins not collected on the proper days, etc. Interesting questions you ask there.
There is a waste servicing licensing operation up and running, but it’s not entirely clear from my reading of it so far whether a license can be rescinded and by who.
[...] More on Waste collection in Dublin? 15:40 Fri Mar 02, 2012 | WorldbyStorm [...]
Does anyone know about the working conditions for the workers of Greyhound, Panda etc.?
On days were Panda collect bins in my part of Dublin, I see trucks on the road before 07:00 and recently they were collecting bins at approximately 19:00 in the evening.
Are the workers working 12 hour shifts? What is the rate of pay? I’ve seen trucks with a driver and one loader.
Is this were the “efficiency” is coming from? How do the working conditions compare to the previous council employees? Does anyone know?
Two points.
Bag customers – they can expect big increases in prices over the next few years. Having competition in this area will be difficult as there is no database of customers where you pay a “standing charge” . Therefore it will be hard for Oxygen and Panda to start selling stickers for those bags as it will be too unpredictable for the companies to pick up. Therefore it will be a captive market to a certain extent.
Also – the issue of the landfill charges being “passed on”. This will happen more in the future as Dublin City council plans to close Dunsink in the future, and to charge an arm and a leg for dumping in the incinerator. One of the major constraints for local authority charging in the past was that they would have to charge their own waste collection arm those prices as well, which would ause bin collection rates to rise, thus causing problems for the councillers.
But this restraint is gone now – it will be the minimum wage call- centre jockeys for Greyhound who will be taking the abuse when people find their bin charges going up 30 percent year on year indefinitely. I have heard that the suits in Dublin city council are rubbing their hands together with glee at the thoughts of being able to charge what they like for landfill waste. You have been warned…
This process of course only mirrors what Noonan did at the budget- increase the cost to VHI and the other private insurers for the cost of a stay in hospital. Therefore causing premiums to go up, but at one remove of the politician making the decision. Of course, unlike bin charges after the end of the waiver, not everybody pays for private insurance , but the con is the same.
And what does the politician say? …..” Shop around” Yes, it is your own fault you couldnt get a cheaper deal in a market where everybody jacks up their prices 20 percent plus every year….
And the pool of those with sufficient disposable income is draining as the recession continues.
And before you ask, why aren’t Dublin City Council worried about private dump operators undercutting their dump/ incineration prices? I asked that question too with the person I talked to with the inside track, but I didn’t get a clear answer to that. I think it has something to do with the fact that quite a few dumps are to be retired over the next few years without being replaced. So the various players in the waste industry exlect it to be a something of a “sellers market” in the next few years.
However, it won’t be the first time the suits in the council thought they were being clever, only for it to blow up in their faces, so you never know.
Northside Socialist, the same thought struck me. All this is totally opaque.
Logan, agree entirely re captive market. It’s next to impossible to apply a genuine market to this – assuming one wanted to. Re restraint, hard to disagree.
Public utilities are ‘natural’ monopolies which is why they should be public.
+1
If we’re going to get all ‘free market’ about this surely it follows that enterprising individuals who wish to move away from the dead hand of state regulation should be allowed to dump their rubbish anywhere they want without recourse to Greyhound. That’s the logical conclusion to it all, litter and pollution as an expression of legitimate individual choice. Down with the Nanny State.
Given Greyhound’s attitude to people with waivers, I can see those of us who use tags, not just unable to avail of competition, but refused a service altogether on the basis of it being ‘uneconomic’. Which is why the terms of the Greyhound deal must be made public: are they obliged to serve the whole city and every household?
Well, to judge from the deal agreed the answer to the question must be at least open. SDCC and DCC agreed a year – it now transpires. What did they expect to happen at the end of that year? The Government to step in? This is beyond shabby.
Perhaps I’m being boyishly naive here, but there has to be some way the terms of the sale of what was a public utility (and ought to remain such) can be made public. As it stands, the consideration of commercial confidentiality is being raised above the interests of those DCC and SDCC are required to serve.
It seems the removal of St. Laurence O’Toole’s heart from Christchurch has a connection with this. Apparently the Corporation have privatised the service of being patron saint of Dublin. Greyhound got the contract, and so the former service provider has been removed.