Abortion debate: Fine Gael talking points, and more… April 19, 2012
Posted by WorldbyStorm in Irish Politics.trackback
‘Complex’ ‘Sensitive’
‘Sensitive and complex’
‘Sensitive, complex’
‘Delicate’ ‘Difficult’
‘Not black and white’
‘Unwise’ ‘Premature’ ‘Immature’
‘Abortion on demand’
‘Not going far enough’
‘I’m against abortion’
‘Legislate for minorities’
‘Hard cases make bad law’
‘Safest place to have a baby’
‘Life of the mother’
‘Wait till review group’
“Fornication” “Sin”
Spot on.
I preferred Labour’s talking points. They were funnier.
Up to a point.
Oh come on. The sound of useless liberals wringing their hands always makes me smile.
Not to be po-faced, but given the admitted minimalism of the bill (no shame btw on those who sponsored it) that all bar Nulty wouldn’t even make the effort to have a cosmetic vote for it I found it pretty sad and extremely frustrating to be honest.
The only good from this is the remote possibility that Clare Daly, Mick Wallace and Joan Collins work will indirectly prod some on the Government side to do the right thing in six, twelve or twenty four months. But I’m not holding my breath.
Actually, no there is one other good thing. It struck me that the response from the Government deputies, particularly those who would take an anti-abortion stance, was somewhat muted. Relatively little histrionics which makes a nice change of tone. Whether that survives the working group recommendations remains to be seen, but it seemed to me that compared and contrasted with the heat the issue generated in the 1980s and evne after this was a bit more collected.
Yes, it’s interesting that neither Fianna Fail nor Fine Gael rolled out the “yer murderin babbies” rhetoric on this occasion, which I suspect represents an understanding that it will not play well with, ahem, Middle Ireland any more.
I think that’s it. Though I wonder is that a function of Pro Life V.2 which has done its darndest in the media (usual suspects, etc) and elsewhere to present a warmer, kinder, gentler face to the world, perhaps for the very reason you point to re Middle Ireland not being particularly attracted to V.1.
What will be telling is whether when push comes to shove it can maintain that presentation or…
But surely the fact that the heat is gone out of the thing is an even greater reason why we should have had an honest debate and a bit of moral courage from the TDs today. It’s a very different time after all and mores have changed massively from the mid eighties.
Perhps it’s actually more dispiriting to see this carry on now. There’s no doubt that a great many RDS in 1983 would have backed the pro-life movement because they genuinely believed abortion is murder and could never have imagined something like the X case displaying the drawbacks of an absolutist stance.
Whereas today’s pitiful exhibition seems to have been founded largely on timidity and self-serving craftiness. I’m not sure if an ‘ah, sure you know yourself’ put it on the long finger attitude is much better than the old ‘murdering babbies’ stance, especially when the end result is the same.
If we see meaningful legislation on abortion in the lifetime of this Dail I’ll eat a year’s supply of Alive.
+1.
To be honest just thinking of what you’re saying I wonder if today’s debate will have made both FG and the LP a little less afraid? It was clear as crystal that neither party, but particularly FG, could gauge the public mood on this. Mind you, neither can I, but the timidity you refer to speaks of enormous cowardice.
That said I completely agree. This bunch have conservative instincts in both small and large ‘c’ senses and kicking to touch will be the default option.
One very interesting question is there any chance some who took an absolutist pro-life view will be swayed even slightly by X and even more so some of the experiences of those for whom abortion was a medical necessity, or is it batten down the hatches and pretend there’s no grey areas [by their own lights]?
How seriously can we take Shorthall’s assurance that government legislation on the X case will follow very swiftly on the heels of the report of this expert group? Are Labour backing themselves into a corner with that kind of talk? Or will they follow through? Today was a shameful travesty and it’s heartening to see a precipitous decline in Labour’s polling numbers.
I actually think that Labour in particular have indeed backed themselves into a corner on this. They were under real pressure. Every last one of them had to swear blind that they will introduce their own legislation in the reasonably near future, which is obviously a ridiculous reason to vote against Daly’s Bill but the rhetoric will be remembered.
Labour have long since lost interest in their traditional working class base. What they mostly have left as an absolute hardcore, above and beyond swing voters, was mostly the poverty industry and social liberals. This whole term is going to consist of them taking one long leak into the pockets and down the legs of the poverty bureaucrats. They’ve now promised and promised and promised the liberals that this time they mean it and will legislate. A failure to do so will not end happily for them.
The same TDs who supported the X Case Bill will be, hopefully, working together on the No side of the Austerity Treaty Referendum Debate.
Let us be very clear – stay well away from the religious far-right which has decisively lost the trust of most Irish voters thanks to the X Case and the child abuse scandals. This fact makes the political cowardice of the Labour Party leadership in coalition with Fine Gael specially stupid.
I think your thoughts link directly in with what EamonnCork is saying too. It’s a spectacular display because the cynic in me suspects that they’re both all too happy for Daly et al to go out ahead and draw the flak – perhaps even better if she can be painted in certain colours while eventually, if even, they introduce minimalist legislation further down the road. She effectively becomes a lightning rod.