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What you want to say… Open Thread, 18th July 2012 July 18, 2012

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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As always, following on Dr. X’s suggestion, it’s all yours, “announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose”, feel free.

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1. liam - July 18, 2012

that sage economic hack dan o’brian (irish times, business this week section, fri 13th july) writes it is the tds timidity with the government ministers and the judiciary helped to draw the the teeth of any pac investigation into the banking fiasco . He rounds of the article with this paragraph ” The rejection of that referendum all but ensures that knowledge of the banking collapse will never advance much beyond what is known already”.
it seems to me we could do with investigative journalists not afraid of legal writs to get some answers to the banking collapse.

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2. RosencrantzisDead - July 18, 2012

James Reilly is getting rid of the HSE.

From the media reports, which can be quite unclear, it seems that we are transitioning to something like ‘foundation hospitals’. Is this accurate? I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others.

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Jim Monaghan - July 18, 2012

And you can bet on a really nice deal for the departing CEO.

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RosencrantzisDead - July 18, 2012

Naturally, Jim; this is Ireland after all.

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Joe - July 19, 2012

I suppose, in fairness to the departing CEO, he has said he won’t be looking for any package. We’ll see.

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Blissett - July 18, 2012

My first instinct is. ‘well it could hardly get any worse’, though on second thoughts, it occurs to me that they could be famous last words…

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Joe - July 19, 2012

There’s a lot to it RiD. Yes, they are organising hospitals into groups which will then be formed into independent trusts over the next year or so. The HSE is being abolished and the Minister will have much more direct hands-on control of everything. Six directorates are being set up – for acute care, older persons, public health etc – potential problem there is they will become separate silos with less co-ordination than they should have.
I work in the place and I haven’t a clue what’s going on! You can see stuff on the DoH website. I reckon the Programme for Government has a description of their medium term aims – the stuff around a single tier system as opposed to the current set-up where people with insurance get seen quicker.
All that stuff about abolishing the HSE is a lot like playing the accordion on the Titanic – every 5 years or so they decide to centralise everything, then 5 years later they decide to decentralise.
I hope that’s all clear for you now!!

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LeftAtTheCross - July 19, 2012

Presumably the decentralisation into independent trusts will facilitate privatisation, and also give the impression of creating or boosting competition in the “healthcare market”. Why else would they be doing it otherwise?

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Joe - July 20, 2012

It’s complicated LATC and RiD. The govt press release on this, available on HSE and DoH websites, includes this paragraph:

“This Government inherited a two tier health system which is inherently unfair to many citizens. Today’s announcement is a significant step on the road to the abolition of our two tier health system and its replacement with a system that responds to our needs and not our financial means”.

To me, this is a good thing. A glaring inequality in our health service up to now is that people (like me) with insurance get seen quicker than those without – even if those without insurance are sicker. The govt says it is going to change that. (It also says it is going to introduce free GP care for all.) Clearly these things will cost something so how it will be funded is interesting and challenging to say the least. But at least, Reilly says he wants to do it and he says it can be done. Previous ministers either didn’t think it was a problem – Harney – or just thought it couldn’t really be changed – Martin etc.

On the hospital trusts – no I don’t think privatisation is on the agenda. I think Reilly sees it as maybe a bit of competition between trusts – each can be measured against targets and pressure put on them to be more efficient.

So yeah, I’m sort of supporting the FG minister here – what would my North Cork republican mammy say?

Tell you how it’s all going to go pear shaped though. It’s Reilly’s policy, very much a personal agenda that others in FG wouldn’t be too supportive of. But Reilly thinks he can drive it through by sheer force of personality – he will piss too many people off and my predicition is that there will be business dealings in his past etc that will eventually be used by his opponents to bring him down. Then some other FG or Lab chappie will become Minister who won’t give a toss about trying to change anything much.

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RosencrantzisDead - July 19, 2012

Thanks, Joe. Hopefully, things will bexome clearer over the ext few weeks/months.

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3. Pidge - July 18, 2012

Interesting video of Alfie Byrne talking about the North, and relations between Ireland and the UK.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/interview-with-mr-alfred-byrne-lord-mayor-of-dubli

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WorldbyStorm - July 18, 2012

Weirdly the other day I saw a photo of him at a Blueshirt rally giving the fascist salute beside the good General.

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WorldbyStorm - July 19, 2012
EWI - July 21, 2012

Yes, I love mentioning that one to “good aul’ Dubs” who swear by St. Alfie.

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4. Roasted Snow - July 18, 2012

Solidarity with Comrade Louise Minihin. Beir bua! Long live the Working Class!

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5. Roasted Snow - July 18, 2012

This from Louise

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eamonncork - July 19, 2012

How it works.
Louise Minihan goes to jail because the verdict of the courts must be absolutely sacrosanct.
Sean Quinn stays out of jail after plotting for months to undermine the work of said courts.
Louise Minihan is an enemy of society because she didn’t pay a couple of hundred quid after being ordered to do so by the district court.
James Reilly remains a government minister although he didn’t pay a hundred and ninety million euro after being ordered to do so by the high court.

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6. Starkadder - July 18, 2012

Since, as Gore Vidal noted, “Sex is Politics”, here’s a blog with
an interesting analysis of the hugely successful “Fifty Shades of
Grey” books by E. L. James:


..let’s look at what James is using Grey to imply about the ideal male:

* A man’s worth is dependent on his appearance and wealth.

* An attractive and successful man is a man who is void of typical human emotions, save for those having to do with aggression and dominance.

* It’s not only okay to be controlling, but preferable– women secretly want that, even if they act like they don’t.

* Going on long, listless rants about your super cool ability to control everyone around you is sexy, and not creepy at all.

http://takingbackfeminism.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/fifty-shades-of-wrong-part-one/

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TheOtherRiverR(h)ine - July 20, 2012

Sex is sex. As long as it isnt kids or scat whatever floats your boat. If some women like to be submissive to men fine. If some women like to whip men with a cat of nine nails, force them to wear a neglige and a chastity device while licking the floor clean, thats fine as well.
You’re not suggesting that for full gender equality, the state must force men to take it up the ass with a strap-on from their respective partner? Googling that will prove that a good subset like that particular practice.

P.S. I hate 50 shades of grey mainly because it’s unrelentingly boring and lousy. Its based on Twilight fan fiction for christ’s sake.

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7. CL - July 18, 2012

Tommy McKearney condemns selective prosecution of certain individuals:
“The idea of revisiting the conflict to try and single out individuals is wrong. Either the conflict is over or it’s not; one or two people cannot be victimised.”

‘FORMER Tyrone hunger striker and IRA man Tommy McKearney has accused academics at Boston College of a breach of trust regarding taped interviews they have been ordered to hand over to the authorities.

Speaking to the Tyrone Herald McKearney was also scathing of the decision to convict Dungannon man Gerry McGeough for the attempted murder of part-time UDR man Sammy Brush from Ballygawley 31 years ago in 1981.’
http://www.ulsterherald.com/2012/07/16/former-ira-prisoner-dubious-about-re-opening-inquiries/

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8. neilcaff - July 19, 2012

Mick Wallace has a go at the Socialist Party and PBP in the Dail:

“INDEPENDENT WEXFORD TD Mick Wallace has criticised some of his former colleagues in the Dáil technical group over their attitude to his business difficulties.

He said he found it “a bit nauseating”.

Mr Wallace said he had people from the Socialist Party and People Before Profit lecturing him on business and telling him what he should or should not have done.

“It is actually difficult to take lectures from people who never employed anyone in their life . . . and many of them who never did a day’s manual work,” he added. “It has been a bit nauseating.””

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0719/1224320380745.html

Politically this can only be a good thing for the SP and the left as it puts some distance between them and Wallace. It also show’s the SP were far from being uncritical of Wallace or acting as his defence attorney.

Personally though, I’m gobsamcked at the sheer gall of the man.

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eamonncork - July 19, 2012

People who never employed anyone in their life have no right to criticise businessmen. Now that’s a familiar mantra.

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LeftAtTheCross - July 19, 2012

That approach could be a useful if turned around: people who have never had to raise a family on social welfare have no right to criticise people who do, people who have never lived on minimum wages have no right to comment or act in a way which impact those who do, etc.

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neilcaff - July 19, 2012

eamonn: Yep that was my first thought too.

LATC: Brilliant, I’m nicking that one! :)

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LeftAtTheCross - July 19, 2012

I want copyright on it, where’s my intellectual property lawyer, Rosencrantzisdead where are you when you’re needed, and what sort of political adviser would you make anyway? (One for Bartley: People who haven’t acted as political advisers have no right to criticize those who have…)

RosencrantzisDead - July 19, 2012

Unfortunately, I am advising the Vietnam veteran who came up with ‘You don’t know, man, ‘COS YOU WEREN’T THERE’. He’s suing Wallace, you, WordPress, WbS, Ireland, the Attorney General, Richard Nixon, and The Governors of the Bank of Ireland.

He also wants the Brady Waiting Period declared unconstitutional. That one will cost extra.

The Commons - July 19, 2012

And yet, back in May or June when the subject of intellectual property, as pertaining to Bob Geldof and him considering that he should not have to pay higher taxes, as he had given so much of his time [life?] and much more, to worthy causes (causes which may then have been properly organised and staffed); there seemed a general inconclusive frazzle on CLR.

RosencrantzisDead - July 19, 2012

Hmm…not sure if this is trolling or just very confused.

LeftAtTheCross - July 20, 2012

TheCommons, to clarify, the reference to intellectual property was a jest which was related to the parallel discussion on the pay of Special Advisers, and the value they contribute to their Ministers in terms of intellectual property, not.

Tomboktu - July 19, 2012

anybody who has not had gay sex has no right to support a ban on marriage for same-sex couples…

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RosencrantzisDead - July 19, 2012

That one could be problematic…

Heckle - July 20, 2012

@latc. Intemellectuall propertie’s reel important, so it is.
Der mae be a ‘zeitghist’ to this. Even songs lift the world.
Hooray Bressie and Rhiannon.

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smiffy - July 19, 2012

So much for some of the comments thrown around here at the time (not, I’d add, by self-identified SP members like Mark P) about how you stick by your friends in times of difficulty.

If the report is accurate – and without seeing the transcript it might be best to reserve judgement – it looks like Wallace just showing his true colours. Ostensibly progressive, but scratch the surface and you have the self-pity and self-importance of a shaggy-haired Bill Cullen.

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CL - July 19, 2012

The most successful businessman ever to hold the U.S presidency was Herbert Hoover.

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9. ghandi - July 19, 2012

Did anyone catch Martin Mc G on Morning Ireland this morning, in relation the Makela Mc Areavey, he said the jury decision was perverse and wrong. The RUC would help in an enquiry and also that he was \”horrified\” by the publication of the photos, which he acknowledged he hadn\’t seen.

Perhaps his suggestion to the Maritians would be Diplock Courts and internment no need for a jury.

He probably kept a straight face as well,

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More and more - July 19, 2012

Obviously going after the rural GAA vote – of course there is no chance one of their own could have committed any crime here – as they say the majority of murders are carried out by someone who knows the victim.

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TheOtherRiverR(h)ine - July 20, 2012

Ye two make me sick; given the fact that it has been established beyond doubt that Mr McAreavey was not involved in Michaela’s death (would help to get the name right Steenson) in addition to the rather farcical nature of the police investigation and the trial.

I know well that the media interest is a variation of “Missing White Woman Syndrome” (in this case murdered white woman syndrome). Nevertheless those comments are rather tactless of the pair of ye.

“The RUC would help in an enquiry and also that he was \”horrified\” by the publication of the photos, which he acknowledged he hadn\’t seen.”

Stuck in a time warp perhaps? In the good old days where your organisation I believe were rather uncritical of the RUC.

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10. ghandi - July 19, 2012

Following Shorthall’s campaign against drink i am shocked and stunned to see Herr Kenny at the Bruce Springsteen Concert holding a pint of some larger or other.

Obliviously its only the working classes who can’t control their drink.

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11. ejh - July 19, 2012

Dunno if anybody help with this. I have a memory of reading, many many years ago, about the events of 1968 in France and specifically of an old shipyard worker giving a speech in which he said he personally was too old to join in but “go on, you lads”. Unfortunately the only bit I’ve so far been able to trace on the net is “go on, you lads” and my bookshelves aren’t currently helping. Does anybody recognise this and can give me the whole speech?

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Tomboktu - July 19, 2012

My searchign suggests it might not have been a speech but a comment made to Daniel Cohn-Bendit by the shipyard worker. Google throuws up references along those lines in “Street-Fighting Years: An Autobiography of the Sixities” by Tariq Ali (1991 and not on google books) and in “The Long Apprenticeship – A Writer’s Memoir” by David Pierce (2012). The latter reference appears to be thurd hand, in that it refers to something put into a paper.

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ejh - July 20, 2012

Ta. I saw the Cohn-Bendit reference on Pierce’s book in Google Books but I remember a longer version from years ago. I looked in Street Fighting Years before posting here and didn’t see it, but I’ll have another look.

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ejh - July 20, 2012

Aha, there it is on page 199. Thanks ever so much.

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ejh - July 20, 2012

And here it is again.

12. Jim Monaghan - July 20, 2012

Mauritius
Let us remember that this is a colonialised nation. Some of its territory was seized for an airbase.
http://www.lalitmauritius.org/viewnews.php?id=1375. Let us be careful about sending in the gun boats”

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LeftAtTheCross - July 20, 2012

The US would want to be looking for an alternative long-term permanent aircraft carrier in the Indian ocean, if global warming contributes to a rise in sea levels as expected.

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13. ghandi - July 20, 2012
irishelectionliterature - July 20, 2012

Sean Quinn snr allowed to remain free on basis that he will co-operate with Anglo to help find/return ‘hidden’ assets.
Nice one by the judge in that Sean snr needs to co-operate or the other two will remain in jail after the initial theree months is served and he can still be jailed.

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EWI - July 21, 2012

Their offense was in outrageously thumbing their noses at the judge. If they had pretended to go along…?

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Tomboktu - July 21, 2012

“Sean snr needs to co-operate or the other two will remain in jail after the initial theree months is served”

Judge Adrian Hardiman would rip that the shreds in a moment — adding more time to the the son’s and nephew’s sentence because the father/uncle failed to co-operate would be a breach of their human rights. I would suspect that other judges on the Supreme Court would agree.

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14. Jim Monaghan - July 20, 2012

What is the solution to the current crisis. I am not convinced that pulling out of the Euro and maybe the EU would be a bed of roses.The main argument is that out of the Euro we would have an effective devaluation thus cutting wages at a stroke and having huge inflation. In this scenario only strong groups would come out ahead or level.So wage rises to compensate for the ESB and less for others with little clout.
Staying in the Euro and the EU has another set of problems. there is no pan EU workers front of any real significance.E.G. Greek and Spanish workers fight alone with little outside rhetorical solidarity.
While it is fashionable to blame one set of the European bourgeoisie, the German one, the reality is that this is a pan European bourgeoisie offensive. In this context the workers of each country is being picked off one by one.
the age old question is what is to be done.
A discussion article below which has pan EU demands.
http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article2683

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15. fergal - July 20, 2012

Anybody here remotely convinced by Mins of Health’s assertion that by “divesting himself” of his interest in the nursing home there is no conflict of interest?What kind of place thinks it’s alright to make money on the backs of people getting old?What kind of person believes that the state should subsidise rich people through tax breaks for old folks homes?
He is one seriously rich guy,he also gets a tax break for letting the public into his mansion in Offaly(?),I wouldn’t mind getting a similar tax break although the visit would be over in a flash!Plenty of rich people in this cabinet Bruton,Shatter,Coveney,Quinn who are content to dish out austerity to the rest of us.Wasn’t it Mandelson who said someting along the lines of “New Labour is totally at ease now with people getting filthy rich”.This sentence came to mind in the light of Reilly’s mini empire and his pals at the cabinet table.

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Roasted Snow - July 21, 2012

Well said Fergal! Labour can’t wait!

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ejh - July 21, 2012

To be fair, Mandelson, when asked about this, always insists that he added “as long as they pay their taxes”.

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fergal - July 21, 2012

Didn’t know the rest of what he said,cheers.The rest of it is telling”as long as they pay their taxes” which could lead us to Jimmy Carr,Bob”there’s people working out in gyms in Ethiopia”Geldof and your man from Take That,all perfectly legal.You’d wonder what state Britain would be in if everybody could decide to evade taxes(perfectly legally of course).Being a financial hub London attracts all sorts of crooks who hoard money there,Moubarak,Gadafi,Abramvovitch et al and maybe Mandy was thinking of them.subconsciously of course!

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16. EWI - July 21, 2012

Mandelson was asked about growing inequality under New Labour, to which he replied that he felt “intensely relaxed”. What a bast*rd.

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17. Michael Carley - July 21, 2012
EWI - July 21, 2012

That’s a shock. RIP.

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COB - July 23, 2012

He will be missed, A really engaging writer. Ar dheis lámh Dé go raibh a anam.

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CL - July 23, 2012

“-But over the years he mellowed, even as he sometimes denied it. He became an American citizen in 2009. That same year he became a columnist for the paleoconservative magazine Chronicles, a platform he used to rail against American imperalism, big-business corruption, and imbecilic leftists. A conservative would have agreed with large parts of most of his columns. He was a passionate defender of gun rights and believed a well-armed society was a bulwark against anyone who wanted to control a population.

He became a true heretic to the Left in 2007 when he declared that supporters of global warming were promoting a fraud: Their “pied piper,” he said, was a “hypocritical mountebank” named Al Gore.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/310230/alexander-cockburn-mellowed-radical-john-fund

On the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan:

“We all have to go one day, but pray God let it not be over Afghanistan. An unspeakable country filled with unspeakable people, sheepshaggers and smugglers… [I]f ever a country deserved rape it’s Afghanistan. Nothing but mountains filled with barbarous ethnics with views as medieval as their muskets, and unspeakably cruel too”-Alexander Cockburn, Village Voice, January 21, 1980

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18. Roasted Snow - July 22, 2012

Thought this was a great expose of the Marion Price situation and linked internationally. Eamonn always captivates!

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ejh - July 23, 2012

What’s he got on that T-shirt?

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19. ghandi - July 23, 2012

Have a listen to this launched last Saturday night and over 4,000 views so far.

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20. Gearóid - July 24, 2012

Interesting C4 doc from 1987 about Gramsci. Hero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=51DhvS9abyI#!

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