Protests over Attack on Palestine Solidarity Flotilla May 31, 2010
Posted by Garibaldy in Israel, Palestine.trackback
A number of protests will be taking place today about this morning’s murders by Israeli commandos in several cities. Here are the details taken from the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign website.
Cork: Daunt Square at 1pm.
Dublin: March to the Israeli Embassy. Leaves from The Spire, 6pm.
Derry: Guildhall Square at 5pm.
Belfast: City Hall at 4pm.
Waterford: Waterford Bridge at 4pm.
The Workers’ Party is calling for the expulsion of the Israeli Ambassador from Ireland.
Please leave any other statements or details in the comments.
The Cedar Lounge Revolution 
Such a bunch of cowards. You’re only willing to protest in support of propaganda directed against those in the Middle East that respect reason. While you’re at it, why not create the problem when you’re simultaneously creating the solution. Sounds like a win-win situation for you. You get to look like you’re very busy doing………something/nothing….whatever…you get to look GOOD! Think, idiots.
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You’re only willing to protest in support of propaganda directed against those in the Middle East that respect reason.
Even leaving aside entirely the morality of the actions of the IDF this morning, it was a painfully stupid thing to do, even as realpolitik…. not much respect for reason there…
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Well done. The stupidest post I’ve ever read on the site. If you’re so keen on ‘reason’ you might have the manners to construct a coherent argument rather than the equivalent of a scrawl on the wall of a public jacks.
The attack on the flotilla was sickening and it really isn’t the time to be slagging off people who are protesting against it. I would reserve the term ‘cowards’ for heavily armed commandoes shooting a bunch of people delivering aid to a poor region. And I’m not a kneejerk anti-Israeli by any means. But there’s no defending this one by some nebulous notion that everything Israel does is rendered OK because somewhere at the back of it all the state’s motivation is pure.
It seems that we had here is a Bloody Sunday moment where someone thought, ‘I’ve had it up to here with all the trouble of trying to police these people, let’s try another tack and see if they fancy it so much the next time.” Disgusting.
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Sorry, but your opinion counts nothing in my book. Your concern for the ‘sickening’ attack would have carried some weight if you bothered to find out what happened.
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See comment no. 2
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@ sonofstan. Silly me!!! I was stupid enough to believe there was media bias relating to an Israeli incident. Oh, sorry man!!! I should have known the Jews were out to conquer the entire Arab world after they settled in Israel. Blame it all in Hitler, for setting such a bad example!!
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You know what? Just fuck off.
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So then there is media bias? Huh?
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Sober up. Then go away. And saying ‘huh’ doesn’t add weight to any argument. Though, of course, you may well be ten years old in which case we can forgive you.
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Of course there is no argument. It’s about searching for the truth. Although you are a bunch of cowards. At least that is a known variable.
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Troll. Best ignored.
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Q.E.D.
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Some other statements I’ve seen:
éirígí: http://www.eirigi.org/latest/latest310510.html
Sinn Féin: http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/18676
Socialist Party: http://www.socialistpartyni.net/component/content/article/68-middle-east/334-socialist-party-mep-condemns-slaughter-of-peace-activists-by-israeli-defence-force
SWP: http://www.swp.ie/index.php?page=910&dept=News&title=Emergency+protests+over+Israeli+murders%3A+1pm+and+6pm
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To be fair, those above should’ve spend less time writing hysterical drivel (although Joe Higgins’ isn’t so bad) and more time reviewing the facts, which are still emerging, about the incident.
No country worth its salt is going to admit a bunch of ships into its territory without searching them, and only a provocative, propagandist mission is going to refuse to identify themselves- which they did refuse. The very first IDF soldier was seriously assaulted as he landed on the one vessel that was boarded – the one containing “peace activists” whom Al-Jazeera filmed singing the usual ‘kill the Jews’ type songs as they set off.
I’ve seen the assault video, but even so I’ll wait for the facts to emerge before making a final judgment. Those who jump straight into protest mode are going to look very stupid, I suspect. The SWP -who, as usual, win the utmost-stupidity award – claim that somebody somewhere has a video too. I want to see it.
Of course this may be dismissed as pro-Israel propaganda, but at least I can’t be accused of working for shin-bet.
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The assault took place in international waters?
Tim you have to be fucking joking! From what I saw on the Guardian website the first IDF soldier was hit with either a stick or an iron bar. Some fucking commando. That justifies the subsequent firing?
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Tim, I’m not so sure. I wouldn’t dismiss what you’re saying as pro-Israel propaganda, but I would think that the distance into international waters would be an issue. I’d also think that the general diplomatic response tells its own story.
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I’m still trying to find out the rules on that – it’s been suggested that the incident taking place in international waters makes no difference.
Also, the commando who was taken by surprise was expecting to board a ship full of ‘peace activists’. Note too that only one ship, the Turkish one, was boarded.
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Tim, that commando got hit by either a stick or an iron bar (presumably he had some form of body armour on at the time) and he and his colleagues then decide to open fire and kill at least ten people. That’s the fact of the matter. This guy is supposed to be commando, expect the unexpected and all that, what happened is inexcusable under any circumstances. And it’s indefensible for any fair minded person, even on the bare facts available at present.
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Well, it will all come out in the next few days.
As for the international waters thing, you might be right, it may prove to have been a disastrous decision.
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Israel is a signatory to the Convention on the High Seas, international law which has the following to say on there matters:
Article 22
1. Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters a foreign merchant ship on the high seas is not justified in boarding her unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting:
(a) That the ship is engaged in piracy; or
(b) That the ship is engaged in the slave trade; or
(c) That though flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag, the
ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship.
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Tim
can you actually quote the “kill the jews” songs – or are you just repeating propaganda? I would genuinely be interested in seeing links to them.
Can you tell me what right to self-defence those in the ship had, given they were in international waters?
The ship was not intending to enter Israeli territory. it was going to Gaza, as is obvious.
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actually, just seen the link you refer to Tim re: songs.
Anti-semitic bullshit by some of the passengers. Not sure that means they should be shot of course (not that you are saying that).
One other question before I stop.
Can you show me a link to where the protestors said they were pacificists who would not attack people who boarded their ship? Surely there must have been one so that these elite special forces members would have been caught unawares by guys with a few sticks?
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– Ramzi Nohra
Actually that’s a good point!
Self-defence is, as far as I know, the right of those on board, but you can see from the video that the commandos were only boarding the ship, not firing on them from above, which they could have done if they’d wanted. If footage emerges to show they did fire from above I’ll change my opinion, but as has been oft stated, all opinions are temporary until the facts come out.
But, on your other point, Gaza is technically Israeli territory and so they do have the right of search and seizure, particularly given that the sealanes are an ideal opening for import of weapons to Hamas.
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PS, no they don’t deserve to be shot for singing “kill the Jews”, but it does show they’re not exactly peace-loving hippies!
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thanks for responding Tim.
I dont think Gaza is technically Israel. Even when it was under Israeli control, it was an illegal occupation, so they wouldnt actually have any rights there.
Also, I take your point that they could have shot from above, but I would think the act of boarding the ship is in itself an aggressive act. Certainly if armed arabs had boarded any israeli ship it would have been viewed internationally as that.
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ICTU statement: http://www.ictu.ie/press/2010/05/31/israels-assault-akin-to-actions-of-a-rogue-state/
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I see pattern here. Israel deliberately perpetrates an outrage and, out of the traps a guy called ‘Fisheagle’, who I don’t think has every commentted here before, is ready to slim anyone who condemns today’s disgusting attack.
‘Fisheagle’ must have been assigned CLR by Israel’s cyber defenders. Which begs the question was this a planned attack and was there a team of cyber attack dogs ready and waiting to pounce once the dirty deed had been done?
Like Eamoncork I’m no knee-jerk anti-Israeli left winger. But after reading the Goldstone report and now this and all the other shit Israel has perpetrated, well the least that could be done is to cut their trade links with Europe until they learn to behave like a decent society.
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Ah, CMK is starting to ask questions. But alas, already the arguments have been made with the questions.
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No-one’s interested in you son.
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Jeez between the rabid apologist wingnuts and the israeli cyber conspiracy theorists, the fringes are well covered. Where’s my tinfoil hat again?
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\”Where’s my tinfoil hat again?\”
Up your ass, Alastair, next to your opinions.
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Delightful.
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Fisheagle has never commented here before. I doubt though that he’s been assigned by anyone to the CLR. I think it’s profoundly unlikely we figure on anyone’s radar so his problems are all his own.
I’m quite happy to delete his comments. Whatever people think.
Got to add, given that like EC and CMK I’d be far from a knee jerk anti-Israeli, and indeed I’ve been to Israel and support it’s right to exist.
I think it’s interesting that FishEagle who doesn’t actually appear to know these things about the broad consensus on the CLR still decides we’re…er… cowards. A bit of research wouldn’t go amiss before the insults. But sadly s/he adheres to the idea that no action can be questioned.
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WbS, you’re too modest, CLR was “Best Political Blog 2009”, which puts it on the radar. FishEagle is behaving like a troll. He’s entitled to his opinions, but we shouldn’t humour him by arguing. He’ll go away eventually. If he starts cross-commenting about this issue on other threads then there would be grounds for silencing him.
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Neither EC or CMK wrote the article or indicated that they were going to attend the protests listed in the article. When they responded to my comments, they identified themselves as the cowards.
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You don’t get to set the rules on justifying your abusiveness here FishEagle.
LATC fair point.
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Just to add to LATC’s point about Israeli Cyber Defenders I would ordinarily assume, like Alistair did, that this is a crack-pot consiracy theory we’re it not for Peter Oborne’s documentary “Inside the Israeli Lobby” which deals extensively with this allegation and finds numerous examples of a network of Israeli Cyber defenders including an extremely well funded organization whose sole purpose is to monitor the Comment Is Free section of the Guardian website, and if you go on CiF you will find a suprising amount of FishEagles for the blog section of a left-wing daily. It is therefore entirely likely that CLR has been targetted also. Lastly, given all the sockpuppetting thats been going on I feel I should let you know I am not CMK
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I’ve encountered (and banned) enough of these characters over the years to have a good idea that it’s not random. I doubt that there’s anyone directly connected to the Israeli state doling out lists of blogs to spam, but it’s well-established that they’re actively promoting it:
The hasbara brigade strikes again! You always hear about Israeli attempts at media manipulation. Everyone knows it’s going on but usually the process happens through cyber insurgents like those involved with Giyus (and its media monitoring software, Megaphone). Now, we know that the Israeli foreign ministry itself is orchestrating propaganda efforts designed to flood news websites with pro-Israel arguments and information.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media
I doubt that this particular specimen of the Flying Monkey corps knows even now that she’s arrived on an Irish blog. I’m certain that if asked, she also won’t be particularly forthcoming as to how she happened to arrive here.
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I’m a South African. I visit sites like Atlas Shrugged, Mark Steyn, Melanie Phillips, David Horowits’s News Real Blog, Ezra Levant, etc. and regularly express my opinion. It’s usually pro-Jewish. Does that really matter? Can you please get on with the topic at hand!!!!!!! Jees man. Stop fussing about who I am.
I’ve been following your site for months and I was told about it by an Irishman. Hope that narrowed it down for you. Haha.
Worldbystorm, do you know the difference between questioning actions and protesting actions?
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On another site you implicitly incited others to cause trouble here ‘or have fun’ as you put it. If you’d troubled yourself to do us the courtesy of studying our moderation policy you’d see that’s a no no… bye bye.
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Blogging is fun. Especially when you have the upper hand in an argument.
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Leslie / fisheagle, did you ever sort out that moral dilemma you had about bringing children into a country run by blacks?
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I’m a South African. I visit sites like Atlas Shrugged, Mark Steyn, Melanie Phillips, David Horowits’s News Real Blog, Ezra Levant, etc. and regularly express my opinion. It’s usually pro-Jewish.
I find it offensive that the ravings of a pretty nasty racist are being self-described as “pro-Jewish”.
I’ve been following your site for months and I was told about it by an Irishman. Hope that narrowed it down for you. Haha.
Somehow, I find you lacking in credibility. God knows why.
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@ EamonnCork. Good. About time you took an interest in the Middle Eastern developments.
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Ahh Fisheagle, tell me, are you still fighting the good white fight for white South Africa? Not really the same since the blacks took over, is it?
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You have suggested there is media bias concerning South Africa too.
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Odd thing is that .za suffix has suddenly made a massive appearance all over the CLR. Why?
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Well, at least you are consistent, Leslie, you hate blacks and arabs.
The jews, though. I mean, I know they helped you with the bomb – or was that the other way around? – but still, jews are not really up there with the glorious Christian white soldiers of the homeland, are they?
Is it a case of my enemy\’s jewish enemy is my friend?
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Er… anti-semitic… just a tad? I think there’s gonna be some bannings.
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My idols are about 90 % Jewish. I don’t hate blacks and I don’t hate Arabs. Since when did this post become about me?? Maybe there is some need for bannings. Let’s stick to the topic.
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Fisheagle is no he, but a she, and she has commented on your website before. she is an extreme right winger from South Africa, who believes that blacks are of lower intelligence to whites. My comment on jews is about how Leslie Sanderson (fisheagle) suddenly finds the Jews ok because they are killing people of similar lower intelligence, i.e. Muslims.
Leslie is a nasty fascist rash on south african blogs. I\’m doing you a favor here, pointing this out, and you want to ban me. so be it. Bye bye.
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I will only continue this discussion if I’m guaranteed a platform to defend myself against accusations.
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In fairness lads, this is an enormously important issue. It’s a bit more than the backdrop for some uninteresting scrap of dubious provenance between two people none of us have ever heard of.
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Very sensible.
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We should regard Israeli Destruction Force statements with extreme suspicion, but the current propaganda line…
[Source: The Guardian online]
… would seem to indicate those commandos are pretty, well, shite at their jobs.
Perhaps this is the intention, however. And early days in the fabrication.
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[…] from the IPSC, Workers Party, Sinn Féin, éirígí, Socialist Party, SWP; and more at Cedar Lounge, amongst many other […]
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So would this be an act of politicide? Or can we bump it up a notch to what it actually is?
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The attack on the Flotilla was an incredible act of aggression from Israel. Totally unprovoked, there was no ‘they are firing rockets over the border’ or anything like that to legitimize the attack. Instead we find that peace activists reacted with iron bars etc when heavily armed commandoes came from the sky and boats onto a ship with humanitarian aid.
I’d assume too that such a venture as the flotilla would not be immune from Israeli intelligence having people aboard all through the voyage. So anything could surely have been planted on the boat be it ‘switchblades, slingshots, metal balls and metal bats’ or guns to be found by the IDF after capturing the boat.
Israel should be getting the treatment South Africa used to get.
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See this authoritative report on the IHH front group for Hamas.
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e105.htm
“Marmara” Hamas/IHH battle ship. See IHH banner beside the flag of Turkey:
See IHH work for Hamas; their violent nature can be seen in the last couple of minutes. Some of these terrorists probably ambushed Israeli forces.
Yvonne Riddley – former Taliban/al-Qaeda captive and current Press TV whore for Ahmadinejad – reveals that IHH Muslim Brotherhood group directs the Gaza raids, from Turkey:
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Don’t you wastes of flesh and blood feel like human player pianos, when you eat Hamas crap? You screwed up by supporting the same garbage that has ethnically cleansed over 2,000,000 Christians from their Holy Lands, since 1948. THEY HATE SECULARS EVEN MORE!!!
Muslims recognize a huge cult only exclusion zone (al-haramain) around Mecca and Medina. At last count, 600,000,000 non Muslims have been murdered since Muhammad concocted the Quran fictions to get back at fellow tribe members, who ridiculed his status as sex-toy for a rich women, 15 years his senior. You are useful idiots. Get educated before you puke final judgements, gas-bags.
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wow, there must be a full moon out tonight.
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V. true alastair.
Well that’s very persuasive Jack, particularly the bit where you refer to Yvonne Ridley as a ‘whore’. Brilliant. Compelling. And the insults only add credibility to your argument. Fantastic. Wonderful. I’m impressed.
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Did somebody post a link to this article somewhere frequented by frothing crazies?
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Clearly they’ve never bothered to read the SP proposals… and I don’t meant that in a snide way. I think the SP route on this isn’t bad at all. Nope it’s like it’s stereotype city…
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Duh! Maybe the IHH is only another cog in the benevolent Hamas humanitarian wheel.
Duh! Maybe Islam isn’t a supremacist movement that integrates religion with state.
Duh! Maybe Muslim countries allow free exercise of religion, press, association, etc.
Duh! Maybe Euros aren’t dhimmi doormats.
Duh! Maybe Muslims love your alcohol, poetry, dope, muhammad cartoons and free love.
Duh! Maybe Euros aren’t whores in search of a pimp.
Duh! Euros really know how to use their faculty of reason.
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More insults. Well done. Way to go in convincing people.
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Oh wait, you’re Jack again, aren’t you.
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Ah, so it’s ‘Jack Mutt’ and ‘Ad Hominem’ who been assigned CLR by the neo-con Israelis.
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If the ‘neo-con Israelis’ actually had a grand cyber conspiracy at play, don’t you think they’d muster up something better than a sockpuppet loon?
Israel is losing the PR game on every media with this shambles. ‘Piss up in a brewery’ comes to mind.
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Some of our visitors come from Canada. I’d love to know why they bother. It’s such a waste of time. They’re hardly going to change hearts and minds.
TBH I think that if they were an Israeli disinformation project, first they wouldn’t be here, secondly if by some infinitesimal chance they were, they’d be a little bit more nuanced, i.e. trying to position the discussion on legalisms, etc, etc rather than the cut and paste dhimmi nonsense we see above.
Nope, our pal Jack is someone who has more time than is sensible for sanity or whatever on a computer exercising his own particular grudge against the world by trailing it through here.
What’s fascinating as well is that it’s this issue above all others. I mean given that many of us take a pretty pragmatic line on Israel Palestine, most likely two nations, right of Israel to exist, etc, etc… and also given that we post about stuff that presumably is hugely noxious to some on the right in economic or social terms what on earth is the motivation to come in here as we see some of these characters doing? Now there’s something to think about.
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It a mark of the Israeli neo-cons contempt that they would, I firmly believe, willingly accept support from individuals like recent visitors.
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there is unfortunately nearly always more heat than light shown when israel/palestine is discussed.
The standard Israeli tactic of blaming the victim is comin out in force again.
I have to say I find it literally amazing that anyone intelligent accepts the self-defence bullshit the IDF is putting out.
The IDF boarded the protestors boat for fuck’s sake ! The protestors did not board an Israeli boat. By the infantile logic of Israel and its supporters, if an armed man entered your house and you attacked him with a stick – you would be the aggressor. And that even assumes the Israeli information is completely accurate – that they were attacked when on the boat.
No other country in the world would be able to get away with this.
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WBS, the reason you are getting so many weirdos here is because FishEagle posted a link to your site on Pamela Geller’s blog
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/05/report-14-killed-50-injured-in-jew-hating-flotilla-after-muslim-militants-open-fire-on-israel-soldie.html
caution: don’t click on the link above if you suffer from high blood pressure….
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Ta Shane.
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Just to note that the individual who linked the CLR on atlassthugs can be found at the following delightful location:
http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/
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Yeah. We’ll remedy that as best we can… Thanks CMK.
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CMK, that’s not me you’re talking about. I linked to CLR from Atlas Shrugged but it must be another FishEagle blogging at EDL. If you want my background just ask. I’d be happy to give you my opinions.
And here I thought this was about the flotilla incident. Silly me, again!
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*walks in, turns, leaves”
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A reasonable response.
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Just back from the Dublin march – bigger than I expected: all crowd estimates are guesses, and I’d say the cops will say 2,000 and the organisers 10k – I’d put iy between 4-5,000. Put it another way, the front of it was at the Shelbourne before the tail rounded the corner of Kildare St.
Broad platform of speakers; 2 FF, Chris Andrews and Senator whatsisname Daly, who thinks Bloody Sunday was in 1969 …..Aenghus Ó Snodaigh, Jack O’Connor and Emer Costello. Good humoured and mostly composed, at a guess, of the relatively politically unattached.
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Actually, take back the ‘mostly’ but there were a lot of people on their own, under no banners…
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Agree with your figures Im just back myself and we estimated just under 5,000 and very broadly supported.
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RTE says 1,500 or something on the Dublin march. Today FM 1,700.
Look on the bright side, there will be loads of material for the ‘SINDO stupid statement of the week’ next Sunday, as the Israelis occupy a place just next to Ulster Unionists in the Senator’s imagination. I’m sure Ian O’Doherty will try and justify the attack before then though, probably in tomorrow’s Indo.
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Ian O’Doherty is a fat pompous fool with a very inflated sense of self-importance. Here’s a video of him making a complete arse of himself on the Late Late with the Wolfe Tones (-Fintan O’Toole also comes off very badly)
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worse, IO’D is a Kevin Myers wannabe without any discernible talent or literary skill.
Or thinking skill.
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It’s difficult in light of what seem most aptly described as outright murder to do this, but coming back to the incident itself, something that strikes me very strongly is just how unhinged this was, and how seemingly indifferent to Turkish political and public opinion the Israeli govt. appears to have been and continues to be (another striking thing is how cloth-eared many of those on those sites linked to above seem to be as regards how Turkey has been traditionally a staunch ally of Israel even in the very recent past). And of course global public opinion.
What on earth is the political calculation behind such actions? I see the PM was in Canada.
It seems almost as if the Israeli state tilted into a sort of political instability. I mean, such actions are far from unheard of within their territorial boundaries, but this… this seems like a completely different scale/response to what we’ve seen before. And completely counterproductive.
And I think alastair has it right, they’ve been completely swamped on in terms of trying to ‘present’ this, perhaps another reason why there’s such a froth on the internet amongst their supposed supporters.
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Actually, just reading the fact that he was meant to meet Obama tomorrow there’s a bit of a smell of people saying ‘try something, anything’ leading up to these events.
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What on earth is the political calculation behind such actions?
You’re assuming that Netanyahu and Liberman care.
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This woman did not sail with them in the end, but her story is an important one.
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I see Henning Mankell was on board with them.
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what a thread. Am somewhat taken back.
While I left winger and politicised I would regards myself as generally less internationalist than many of the people here. Naturally I tend towards the Palestinian side but I am not blind to Israel’s situation despite their ways I feel some understanding and even sympathy at what seems to be a societal debasement there, an inuring to violence and heartlessness.
But at the end of the day I can see why the march would be heavily stacked with non-politicals. I get the impression that this has shocked and disgusted the apolitical masses and rightfully so.
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“Dr Fintan Lane, Fiachra O Luain and Shane Dillon, all from Ireland, were on Challenger 1 which had travelled from Cyprus in the first wave of the flotilla.
The Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign (IPSC) said it has not been able to contact any of its members on the ships.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282802/Israeli-forces-kill-19-people-carrying-aid-ship-Gaza.html
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I agree Bud, and remember, without naming names, if a fighter goes into combat with a hanging belly, and his opponent is one of the best conditioned athletes going, then he deserves to lose. the story of kimbo slice is of a self-made dude who deserves every one of the millions of Youtube hits that he gets. but i don’t want to see him fight contenders – especially wipes who kick his bandaged knees – so he should be fighting fellow brawlers.
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“something that strikes me very strongly is just how unhinged this was, and how seemingly indifferent to Turkish political and public opinion the Israeli govt. appears to have been and continues to be”
That’s the bit that baffles me. The morality of the action aside, surely even the Likud-right types who would defend the morality of the action would agree it was stupid? I mean, dropping commandos one by one into the middle of a crowd of people from a country whose one of your few allies until you started doing things like insulting their ambassador (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8456008.stm). It’s almost as if the right want to rid themselves of another ally so they can reinforce a bunker mentality.
P.
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[…] 6, 2010 Posted by Garibaldy in media. trackback During the week, regular commenter Captain Rock predicted that following events on the flotilla, “there will be loads of material for the ‘SINDO […]
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An interesting development:
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