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What you want to say? Open Thread, 1st March, 2012 March 1, 2012

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.

As always, following on Dr. X’s suggestion, it’s all yours, “announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose”, feel free.


1. bjg - March 1, 2012

How bad things could get:


Just in case folk haven’t already seen it.



bjg - March 1, 2012
2. EamonnCork - March 1, 2012

I hope that puts all of our own petty problems into perspective.


3. FergusD - March 1, 2012

From that artice:
“People who don’t have money don’t understand the stress,” he’s got to be joking, right?! People without money have a shit load of stress.


EamonnCork - March 1, 2012

I think he means that they don’t understand the special superior variety of stress he suffers from. Thankfully when our government bring in special tax breaks for foreign financial workers in the IFSC shortly, he may be able to relieve his pain by moving to Ireland, thus continuing our country’s proud record of helping the underprivileged in foreign lands.


bjg - March 1, 2012

“Two nations; between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other’s habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets; who are formed by a different breeding, are fed by a different food, are ordered by different manners, and are not governed by the same laws: the rich and the poor.”

Benjamin Disraeli, Sybil, 1845


WorldbyStorm - March 1, 2012

That’s a stunning article. The distinction between luxuries and necessities appears to escape most of those who are quoted.

Thanks bjg, even today there are few enough things that make my jaw drop, but that was one.

Actually I should add it was the first thing today to evoke that sort of reaction in me today. Peter Kellner in Prospect Magazine had a poll that had findings that people in the UK are happy to stand over welfare cuts and a large minority supported cuts in welfare to disabled. The latter fact had me cursing at the magazine.


ejh - March 1, 2012

Thirty years of screw-you-I’m-all-right-Jack philosophy has a certain effect even in a recession.


4. ejh - March 1, 2012

Meanwhile, imagine being a Portsmouth supporter.


5. Ed - March 1, 2012

Can anyone guess which party leader had this to say in the Dáil this week:

“When aging former revolutionaries in conservative alliances with an unashamedly conservative party end up pursuing these policies, the membership and grassroots of their party must ask where it is all going.”

Irony is not his strong suit, apparently


John Meehan - March 5, 2012

Gerry Adams?


6. CL - March 1, 2012

-“In fact, the greatest impediment to unions is weak and anachronistic labor laws. It’s time to add the right to organize a labor union, without employer discrimination, to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, because that right is as fundamental as freedom from discrimination in employment and education. This would enshrine what the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. observed in 1961 at an A.F.L.-C.I.O. convention: “The two most dynamic and cohesive liberal forces in the country are the labor movement and the Negro freedom movement. Together, we can be architects of democracy.”

….The labor and civil rights movements have shared values (advancing human dignity), shared interests (people of color are disproportionately working-class), shared historic enemies (the Jim Crow South was also a bastion of right-to-work laws) and shared tactics (sit-ins, strikes and other forms of nonviolent protest). King, it should be remembered, was gunned down in Memphis in 1968, where he was supporting striking black sanitation workers who marched carrying posters with the message “I Am a Man.” Conceiving of labor organizing as a civil right, moreover, would recast the complexity of labor law reform in clear moral terms.”


7. The Volunteer - March 2, 2012

Hi a cairde, not sure where the best place is to post this but would anyone on here happen to have known Joe Christle or the men of his group? I’m writing a wee bit on him, hoping it will generate some interest in the group and the times. GRMA!


The Volunteer - March 2, 2012

^My e-mail is spiritoffreedom69@rocketmail.com

In addition to Christle’s own career, the group produced a lot of activists who were radical for their time (Gerry Lawless, Liam Wlash, etc) and would go on to influence other republican groups, but they all have been written off by traditional IRA historians for some reason.


Jim Monaghan - March 2, 2012

You should look at the Gery Lawless thread. There was a wake for Lawless last Sat which was attended by some 50s veterans, I would guess from the Chrisle org.


8. Watty Cox - March 2, 2012

Good news for those of us who despair of the historical
climate in Ireland- the venerable
Athol Books magazine “Church and State” is going to become
an Irish history magazine. Our nation desperately needs
such a publication; as editor Pat Maloney explains on
page 10 of the current issue:

There are two publications which claim to be Irish
history magazines. One, “Irish Historical Studes” seems to be
produced for a closed academic market and one of its
editors is a British militarist historian. The other, “History
Ireland” could not survive without the patronage of the
influential revisionist stratum in the Universities, and is
conducted accordingly.

“Church and State” is on sale in Books Upstairs in
Dublin and Solidarity Books Cork. Buy your
copy immediately. 🙂


Jim Monaghan - March 2, 2012

History Ireland revisionist, now that is revisionist


WorldbyStorm - March 2, 2012

And entertainingly incorrect.

That said I look forward to Church and State becoming an Irish history magazine. It should be very interesting.


9. D_D - March 2, 2012

The time could be approaching for an ‘Irish Times’ Stupid Statement of the Week. There are several of them in this submission:



WorldbyStorm - March 2, 2012

An unbelievably wrong headed analysis on O’Brien’s part.


CL - March 2, 2012

Reaganite workfare is now being implemented by the Labour Party.
Dan O’Brien’s piece referenced by D.D echoes Ronald Reagan who in January 1982: “.Responds to a question about the 17% black unemployment rate by pointing out that “in this time of great unemployment,” Sunday’s paper had “24 full pages of … employers looking for employees,” though most of the jobs available – computer operator, or cellular immunologist – require special training, for which his administration has cut funds by over 30%.’

· Misstprogram to aid the elderly (see 2/24/82)


Crocodile - March 2, 2012

I read O’Brien’s piece the morning after the retirement do of a much loved colleague, going reluctantly because her mediocre pension would be even worse if she stayed on. She won’t be replaced, of course, so the rest of us – already working 20% harder for 20% less than 5 years ago – will have to do her work too.
But if Dan says we’re ‘cosseted’ it must be so.


popeepopt - March 2, 2012

O’Brien is spectacularly wrong spectacularly often. I’ve given up bothering to read his pieces, except to confirm that it would be a waste of my time.

Well actually I’ve given up reading the Irish Times altogether. For instance Mr. O’Brien still thinks that the Draghi’s ECB is singing from the same hymnsheet as Wiedmann’s Bundesbank. In fact they are at each other throats in a religious war over how many angels can dance on a theoclassical economic pin.

I don’t know whether it is laziness or stupidity, or both, to be honest.


CL - March 2, 2012

Nassau Senior was one of the luminaries who headed up a Royal Commission on the Poor Law which resulted in the New Poor Law in 1834,-i.e.welfare reform.
The ideology underlining this 1834 reform is the same that led to Reagan’s attack on the welfare system and which was brought to fruition under Clinton.
The ‘scientific principles’ underlying welfare reform can be summarized in Senior’s own words:

‘Hunger and cold are the punishments by which she (nature) represses improvidence and sloth. If we remove these punishments, we must substitute other means of repression’
(N.Senior, Journal, Conversations and Essays)

The IMF/Lab/FG govt’s ‘labour activation measures’ are based on the same right-wing dogma; Joan Burton is an ideological descendant of Nassau Senior.
Dan O’Brien is urging her to move faster in this regressive, workfare direction.


10. que - March 2, 2012

just watching the Help on vidya now and it starts off with one of the maids saying she makes .95 per hour. Ran that through a CPI site and turns outs in 2012 she was on USD7.46.

Thats higher than the federal min. wage today.

So on the movies its fair to point out that was a shit wage but in 2012 maybe its not so easy to point it out for hollywood.

Still there, still the same crap wage.

just thought it was an interesting random tidbit



que - March 2, 2012

just to add to this. it occurs to me looking at this film that to an extent the type of radicalism required in the 50s to break that system in America has now entered into folklore – noble then but crazy now, the right thing for them to do and worthy of support but not the thing for you to do now.

that idea ties in with a book I was reading about the death of american trade unionism.


11. Starkadder - March 3, 2012

Reuthers are reporting Armenian Americans will be
holding a rally in April to commemorate the 97th Anniversary
of the Armenian Genocide in New York:

For the 27th year, thousands of Armenian Americans and their supporters will gather in Times Square (Broadway between 43rd and 44th Streets) to commemorate the first genocide of the 20th Century: the Armenian Genocide (1915-23). To be held on Sunday, April 22, 2012 from 2-4 PM, this historic event will pay tribute to the 1.5 million Armenians who were annihilated by the Young Turk Government of the Ottoman Empire. The Commemoration will also celebrate the survival and spirit of the Armenian people, their rich heritage and global contributions. Major political figures will speak as well as civic, humanitarian and educational leaders. This event is free and open to the public.

The theme of the Commemoration is “Turkey Is Guilty of Genocide; Denying the Undeniable Is a Crime.” Most recently, France has strongly reinforced its position on denying the Armenian Genocide.



12. Gearóid - March 4, 2012

Reclaiming the legacy of comrades Rabbitte and Gilmore in the wesht: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XbxvGMd9rw&feature=player_embedded


EamonnCork - March 5, 2012

What’s with this ‘wesht’ shite?


Gearóid - March 5, 2012

typo. Also, John’s links on the previous ‘What’s happening thread’ are a goldmine


Gearóid - March 5, 2012

And the person who pointed to Pádraig G Lane also!


EamonnCork - March 5, 2012

My apologies Gearoid.


13. John Cunningham - March 5, 2012

For anyone in the Galway area next Tuesday, Emmet O’Connor will be speaking on ‘Labour historiography and the “decade of centenaries”.

The seminar is being held in the Moore Institute, Tuesday, 13 March, 4 pm. All welcome (And, as the obituary notices used to go: ‘American papers please copy’)

The seminar will be followed by the launch of the current issue of Saothar: journal of the Irish Labour History Society, which was a special on women.

Further info from john.cunningham@nuigalway.ie


14. John Cunningham - March 5, 2012

Oh, the Moore Institute, where Emmet O’Connor will be speaking, is in NUI Galway


15. Michael Carley - March 5, 2012

Of interest to a lot of people here, the NLR reviews Tommy McKearney’s book:



Mark P - March 5, 2012



Michael Carley - March 5, 2012
Ed - March 5, 2012

There’s a review of McKearney from a very different angle on Danny Morrison’s website: remarkably bitter and spiteful, I thought, and anyone who’s read the book can see that he’s taking aim at straw men. The bit that struck me the most was this very crude piece of Red-baiting:

“Some of his analyses and contentions I would agree with, but his prescription suffers from a certain idealism and utopianism which are not unconnected to his Marxist outlook. Ideological class struggle sounds good but communism has been tried by Lenin, Stalin and Mao, to name the bigger failures on the blood-soaked canvass.”

Aye, and Morrison is a nationalist, so we’ve seen what his ideology leads to (Hitler, Franco, Milosevic). That’s about the level of the argument.



tomasoflatharta - March 5, 2012

“the bigger failures on the blood-soaked canvass.”? – would that include movements that once talked of taking power with “a ballot paper in this hand, and an armalite in the other” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armalite_and_ballot_box_strategy


J.B. O'Hateful - March 5, 2012

‘And what about this scenario: what if the ones who are really penetrated and controlled by British intelligence are those feted in the media for their anti-Sinn Féin rhetoric, that is, the dissidents and their journalist allies who are being run/used by securocrats disgruntled at their failure to destroy the Republican Movement, and at the success and prominence of Sinn Féin?’

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink….


Ed - March 5, 2012

If we wanted to indulge in a bit of Red-baiting ourselves, doesn’t Morrison’s paranoid conspiracy theory about a plot stretching from MI5 to Ed Moloney to the Real IRA sound a bit like what you would have heard in the Moscow trials?

The irony is, right now we’re seeing a pretty clear example of ‘securocrats’ trying to undermine Sinn Fein, as Eamonn McCann has convincingly argued:


But when Morrison found time to comment on the Boston College affair, he didn’t say a word about the securocrats, he reserved all his bile for Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre:


For someone who accuses others of being bitter, twisted, disgruntled etc. and thus unable to give a sensible analysis of what’s happening in the North, it’s a comical performance.


16. Richard - March 5, 2012

Some thoughts on Joan Burton’s article in yesterday’s Sindo http://knaves.posterous.com/bondholder-diplomacy


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