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SIPTU: Charting a New Economic Course November 20, 2012

Posted by Garibaldy in Trade Unions.


1. Bartlee - November 21, 2012

Nice to see Peter Sutherland doing a bit of ‘acting’ there.


2. Blissett - November 21, 2012

Have to say, SIptu over last couple of months in particular have become incredibly schizophrenic, and a bit all over the place. Jack O’Connor in Liberty last month on about this new economic course stuff, which is all sound, and mouthing off about austerity, but a few pages earlier editorialising about how Labour needed to stay in Government come hell or high water.
And I had to laugh at the gall of him marching against austerity in Belfast, given role Siptu are playing in south


CMK - November 21, 2012

Not to mention SIPTUs unstinting support for a property tax, which while couched in terms or ‘fairness’ and ‘proportionality’ will nonetheless translate into the inquitable property tax that will undoubtedly be announced in the budget.

That incoherence you’ve noticed is not coincidental. It’s a product of I think the growing awareness among the upper echelons of the union movement that really hard choices are imminent, choices which will push them far outside their comfort zones regardless of what they choose. I have to say I think the union leaderships have grossly miscalculated their response to austerity and that their capacity to control their destinies over the coming years, as material circumstances worsen considerably for ordinary members, will evaporate.


3. Bartley - November 21, 2012

I love the little reference to the posh school subsidy.

As if the union brother and sisters in ASTI are just going to slink off into the night, if this subsidy (read wages) was to be stopped.


Dr.Nightdub - November 21, 2012

Given how ASTI acquiesced in the introduction of two-tier pay scales (for newly-qualified teachers v teachers already in jobs), I’d say they’re perfectly capable of slinking off into the night. If not downright scuttling.


Bartley - November 21, 2012

Wasn’t the whole sacrificial-newbie idea acquiesced to right across the fraternity of public sector unions, the bould SIPTU included?

In any case, I guess the point was those teachers are just as protected by the CPA as TUI or INTO members, or indeed SIPTU members such as Carol Hanney.

So even if the posh schools were forced out of business tomorrow, those ATSI members are staying put on the state payroll, and that represents the bulk of the so-called posh school subsidy that SIPTU is complaining about (most disingenuously, as its done in the full knowledge that a key plank of their own strategy has ensured that this chunk of funding is completely embedded & immovable).


WorldbyStorm - November 21, 2012

I took a gander at the ASTI website, curious as to whether what you suggest is correct.

Q. Can privately paid CID’s be considered for redeployment by the management or is it just Department paid teachers?

A. The redeployment scheme as defined in the Agreement does not comprehend privately paid teachers. This means that if a school has more than its allocation of Department paid teachers it will be Department paid teachers who will be redeployed. The ‘safety’ or otherwise of privately paid teachers is another matter entirely. The absence of a redeployment scheme for such teachers means that, if the school decides to employ fewer teachers from its own resources, it is redundancy, rather than redeployment that faces such teachers. This position is unaffected by the Agreement.

But then I read this:

Q. In a fee-paying school where there are a number of teachers on CIDs funded entirely by the school do teachers on the redeployment panel have prior rights to a position in the school if a vacancy occurs?

A. If a vacancy for a Department funded post occurs in a school then a teacher regarded as surplus to requirement in another school may be redeployed into that position.

Is that ‘may’ as in ‘will be’ or ‘may’ as in provisionally speaking if there is a post there? But then it is contingent on there being a post. Now in fairness given the demographic boom and the consequent need for more teachers is this really a problem?


Bartley - November 21, 2012

Those privately paid teachers are in a nasty bind all right, sounds like they’ll be first for the chopping block and last in line for any permanent department-funded positions that arise from retirements or whatever.

This is particularly ironic given that a Labour-inspired measure put many of them in that position, increasing the department-funded pupil:teacher ratio for private schools only, thus forcing such schools to take on extra privately paid teachers to fill the gaps.

However, I don’t think the insecurity of those teachers’ position is relevant to the status of the so-called subsidy to posh schools that SIPTU is knocking (given that they were never paid out of that subsidy in the first place). The vast bulk of teachers in fee-paying schools are still department-funded and thus protected by the CPA regardless of what happens to their school.


WorldbyStorm - November 21, 2012

Hold on, that’s having your cake and eating it, isn’t it? On the one hand in a comment above you appear to bemoan the fact that ASTI teachers (though I think more accurately that would be non privately paid teachers who might be ASTI or not, I don’t know tbh) would retain their jobs – and now you’re shedding tears for teachers who potentially won’t?

Any old excuse I guess – eh?


smiffy - November 21, 2012

ASTI represents both public sector and private sector employees. Not that Bartley worries about details. Obvious troll is obvious, etc.


4. D_D - November 21, 2012

Guess you won’t be on the march on Saturday then, bourgeois Bartley?


Bartley - November 21, 2012

Well given that the SIPTU member in the news this week is paid €117k (and that after the recent abolition of a €5k allowance), I fear the march would be far too rich for my blood😉


Ed - November 21, 2012

No you don’t.


Bartley - November 21, 2012

No seriously … between SIPTU fighting the good fight for displaced CEOs on 4 times the average wage, and Sinn Fein pandering to millionaire widows called Maureen in their alternative budget, seems the left is courting an altogether more classy and moneyed demographic than humble ol’ me.


RosencrantzisDead - November 21, 2012

Do trolls court a demographic?


Ed - November 21, 2012

No they aren’t.

(I appreciate the effort WBS is putting in responding to the usual goal-post moving tedium above, but three-word answers seem more than adequate).


5. Bartley - November 21, 2012


On the one hand in a comment above you appear to bemoan the fact that ASTI teachers (though I think more accurately that would be non privately paid teachers who might be ASTI or not, I don’t know tbh) would retain their jobs – and now you’re shedding tears for teachers who potentially won’t?

Except that I wasn’t bemoaning those department-funded teachers’ job security.

They are exactly the category of worker that should be retained, given that they deliver a frontline service and are generally not over-staffed.

I was bemoaning SIPTU’s pointless rhetoric against a subsidy that will largely have to continue to be paid, regardless of whether those posh schools remain in existence.


WorldbyStorm - November 21, 2012

It seems to me that the tone you adopt is now near-knee jerk, perhaps you genuinely don’t notice it permeating your comments, though perhaps you do.


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