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If Kenny returns as Taoiseach… April 12, 2016

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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…isn’t it genuinely remarkable that he would be the first FG Taoiseach to do so in the history of the party he is leader of. Isn’t that quite something? Can anyone point to the reasons why FG has been so unsuccessful in retaining state power during the last seventy odd years?

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1. Pos314 - April 12, 2016

The lesson FG learned from the Civil War is that the Irish need to be managed, in case we do something crazy like Germany or Chechnya. Unfortunately we have an inbred dislike of being ordered around, which is amplified by FG simply ignoring us and delivering what they think is best, whether we like it or not.

This attitude is reinforced by the corrupt FF winning, which makes FG more disliked… If FG spent more time listening, they would do a lot better. But thanks to their attitude, they never hear from the “losers” as much as they should

I think that the Civil War hurt them in the same way 1916 hurt the Provos*. Just because being dictorial and harsh towards the populace worked once, doesn’t mean it always will. In that sense the organisational capital and culture that initially served C na G (and the unionists) very well has since become a liability.

Labour, being a social democratic party (as distinct from a social liberal or left libertarian party), tends to have similar issues. Both parties seem to identify with the state and existing structures instead of the population to some decree.

*Vast oversimplification

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2. Damon Matthew Wise Âû - April 12, 2016

Maybe their oxymoronic attitude being a Pro-treatiest, pro British Nationalist – the idea of red shirt Irish neo-facist political party basically means whatever happens – is ALWAYS someone else fault, as nobody understands them? You think, any gets a complete contradiction? I think not.

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3. EWI - April 12, 2016

Can anyone point to the reasons why FG has been so unsuccessful in retaining state power during the last seventy odd years?

Because they’re rich scum, and the electorate have the memories of goldfish?

I think that the Civil War hurt them in the same way 1916 hurt the Provos

…wait. What?

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Pos314 - April 12, 2016

I was referring to the manner in which the Provos started to believe that since violence worked once in 1916, it would be sufficient to reunite NI with the republic.

Likewise FG solve everything the exact same way – by assuming they know best and we only need to be coerced into going along with it and everything will be fine. They stopped the place from descending into chaos in the civil war, but it doesn’t seem to have worked since.

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WorldbyStorm - April 12, 2016

Yeah, I think there’s something in that, a too great reliance on supposed precedents which are inapplicable to the then contemporary situation. Though presumably given differences in approach they didn’t lean too heavily on the original and it was more a case of drawing legitimation. But I guess it is plausible that the two were elided in the minds of some of those involved.

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EWI - April 13, 2016

I was referring to the manner in which the Provos started to believe that since violence worked once in 1916, it would be sufficient to reunite NI with the republic.

I think that you’re confusing it with 1919-23. Not all ‘violence’ is the same.

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4. roddy - April 12, 2016

Could’nt figure the “Provo 1916” bit either!

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5. irishelectionliterature - April 12, 2016

I think it’s partly to do with the leaders and their unpopularity or lack of Charisma.
There have been Five FG Taoiseach John A. Costello, Liam Cosgrave, Garret Fitzgerald, John Bruton and Enda Kenny. None of them (bar Garret) have been particularly popular with the people.
On a simple level you have FF with Jack, Charlie, Bertie , Dev, Lemass . Only Albert Reynolds was never used in an Election Slogan where all the others were. “I’m backing Bertie”, “Lets Back Jack”, “Charlie for Taoiseach”, “Let Lemass lead on” and so on.
Garret Fitzgerald had “Give Garret the Go Ahead”, “I’m For Garret” . No other FG leader really had that.
I think we learnt from the recent election what a popular leader can do. FF led by anyone bar Martin would not have done as well as they did.
Fine Gael with Frances Fitzgerald would be a different beast to an Enda led FG in an election (Of course you would have focus on first female Taoiseach etc too).
Even when FG led governments do well , Like the Rainbow, they mess up at an election. Bruton v Bertie there was only ever going to be one winner.
There’s no doubt too that FF are more politically savvy.

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6. gendjinn - April 12, 2016

Because they took a shilling off the old age pension?

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EWI - April 12, 2016

And presided over what was apparently a famine, while sticking their fingers in their ears and going ‘la-la-la, can’t hear you’.

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7. Damon Matthew Wise Âû - April 12, 2016

The ancient Vulcan expression – ” The Needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few … or the one ” simply doesn’t apply Alan, they KNOW they are right and everyone else is wrong, and are not unwilling to hide this paranoid delusional state of play. If you think anyone reasonably gets through that; the ” We don’t subscribe to the Finna Fail cult of personality” and “We’re not Fianna FAIL” just never stuck. In Science-Biotechnique Humanoira in Provincial Technical Institute, in Antwerp in Belgium in 1987/88 I tried to explain North and South “them and us” tribal politics in the Island; had somewhat better success 2 years later in European Studies project in 1989/90 on my Suppression and cultural identity Project on Belgian and Irish Celts …

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8. CL - April 13, 2016

FG loses because it represents a privileged minority in Irish society. John Bruton, for example, is the main representative in Ireland of predatory, parasitic financial capital.
FG wins because it is not FF. Right now FF does not want to be FF-the governing party-because it is not strong enough.
The first order of business for the in-coming representatives of the sovereign people will be to get the budget approved by the Bundestag. Other issues can then be farmed out to Dail committees, where FF can offer some token opposition. But FF cannot be both an enabler of a FG led government and the main opposition party.
The radicalism of the populist nationalists of Sinn Fein should not be exaggerated, but they have an opportunity to offer some real opposition. However SF’s silly proposal to side-line the water issue by setting up a ‘commission’ is not a good omen. Their hankering to be part of the system may see them joining the committees, ‘exercising their mandate’, and assimilating themselves to the ruling extreme centre.
Or maybe tribal animosity will undermine the whole scheme and another election is called before the markets get restless.

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