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What you want to say – 29th June 2016 June 29, 2016

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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As always, following on Dr. X’s suggestion, it’s all yours, “announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose”, feel free.

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1. ar scáth a chéile - June 29, 2016
oconnorlysaght - June 29, 2016

Should not this be entered under ‘Signs of Hope’?

Liked by 1 person

2. Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

A strike by tens of thousands of teachers in Mexico has been underway since 16 May against the privatisation of education and labour ‘reforms’ to allow for the indiscriminate sacking of teachers.

The strike has been met with vicious repression by the state. More than 4,000 strikers have already been sacked, shop stewards arrested, picket lines attacked. A mass demonstration of more then 250,000 last weekend in supported of the teachers was attacked by tens of thousands of riot police with hundreds injured and at least ten people killed during the demonstration and by kill squads after the end of the protest.

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Aonrud ⚘ - June 29, 2016
Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

Unions representing over 200,000 doctors are intent on joining the strike by teachers in opposition to the Mexican governments plans for a ‘Universal Health System’ (meaning privatised health care).

while troops and police are shooting striking workers, Mexican President Pena Nieto is in Ottowa meeting Obama and Canadian PM Trudeau. The three ‘amigos’ are meeting to discuss further economic ‘cooperation’ on the North American continent.

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3. Gewerkschaftler - June 29, 2016

The German minimum wage has an automatic review process and a princely 34 Cents per hour has been added on.

That brings it to €8.84 an hour. The long-term unemployed returning to work won’t get this.

Amazingly, the hundreds of thousands of job losses that, if you listened to some economists, were going to result from the introduction of a minimum wage 18 months ago haven’t occurred.

I don’t include this in the signs of hope because it’s reckoned that at least €11.50 an hour for a full-time worker is what is needed to get by in most German cities.

Liked by 1 person

4. Gewerkschaftler - June 29, 2016

Good piece by Richard Seymour: They want their Party back.

He makes the point that Corbyn’s time is the only time that the leadership of the party has been driven by British Labour Party members and has not been in ‘their’ hands. i.e. the professional politicians and their advisers who long ago gave in to neo-liberal TINA.

There’s no prospect of them fecking off and forming another SDP unfortunately – they know they would disappear into oblivion like the last one did. But they are willing to conduct a scorched earth policy within the party until they get what is theirs again.

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Michael Carley - June 29, 2016

His book on Corbyn and the return of radical politics is excellent as well.

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Ed - June 29, 2016

The more it comes into focus, the more patently obvious it is that the coup has absolutely nothing to do with the referendum result. The Telegraph carried an article a couple of weeks ago describing the outline of the coup in detail; it included the fact that Margaret Hodge would be the one to get the ball rolling, for example. The claim that Corbyn must fall because an overwhelming majority of Labour voters voted Remain is so transparently weak and threadbare that they have to embellish it with the most pitiful lies. Journos are still trying to flog a story that Corbyn secretly voted Leave, based exclusively on a Blairite MP claiming that a guy got in touch with him and said that he had run into Corbyn in a restaurant and he told him that he was voting Leave. This alleged conversation took place twice, on June 10th according to the Sun, June 17th according to the Times—when Corbyn was attending the ceremony for Jo Cox. We’re into Enda Kenny-two pints territory here. This was described by the New Statesman’s pol corr as ‘near-certain evidence’. It’s all based on trying to create the sense of an irresistible stampede that cannot be halted. Apparently the parliamentary party meeting on Monday consisted entirely of grubby, sordid Blairite hacks that nobody has ever heard of getting up to heap personal abuse on Corbyn in the hope that they could bully him into quitting without a fight. If the bastards want scorched earth, they should be given scorched earth; if the left can’t win this battle, they should tear the whole damn party down. It won’t be worth a thing if the crooks get their hands on the party machine again so there’s nothing to lose.

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Ed - June 29, 2016

Another piece from Seymour here, haven’t had a chance to read it properly yet:

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-no-confidence-trick-corbyn-labour-post-brexit

I have to say, Seymour has often got on my nerves in the past, but he’s been very good over this stuff, as has Paul Mason. Owen Jones, on the other hand, has shirked the battle. So much for the New Voice Of The Left (TM).

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Aonrud ⚘ - June 29, 2016

I’m no doubt repeating myself here, but since Corbyn entered the leadership election, any vague respect I’ve had for the Guardian or the New Statesman (incorporating Marxism Today!) has taken a serious dive.

And what’s this in the bottom right corner of the Guardian’s coverage? “If you value the Guardian’s coverage of Brexit, please help fund it.” I think the coup can fund itself, thanks🙂

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Ed - June 29, 2016

I hope they look back on the last year or so as a disastrous commercial miscalculation. They’ve been saying for years that they need to reach out to a new generation of readers, young people who don’t habitually buy newspapers and get their news online. Now, there’s a huge surge of people just like that (bigger than the Guardian’s print circulation, I think), and their response is to piss haughtily on their heads and tell them to know their place. The Guardian is bleeding money right now, chalking up huge losses. They’ve laid off a lot of staff recently; next round, Jonathan Freedland, Martin Kettle, Polly Toynbee and the other self-important mediocrities are ripe for a cull, and presumably their wages would save a packet.

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CMK - June 29, 2016

Guardian Media Group got over 600 million pounds from selling the Autotrader which it owned. That cash has been subsidising the main business for several years now and is running out, fast.

It’s a funny example of how basic business sense would have dictated that you don’t alienate all those Lefties who read your paper. 20 or 30 thousand lefties paying a pound a day for your paper might mean the difference between surviving or going under. I was a loyal reader for decades but never buy it now. Ditto the Irish Times. If what I read in the ‘Private Eye’ is anyway true (a moot point), then the Guardian, as know it, might not have long left. After the way it has dealt with Corbyn it has nothing positive to offer, in my view.

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Gewerkschaftler - June 30, 2016

Absolutely – the Guardian has played a disgraceful role in the witch-hunt against Corbyn.

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Ed - June 29, 2016

Cameron also demanding that Corbyn must go. I heard someone claim the other day that Cameron had resigned ‘with dignity’—what a joke. This political lightweight, whose career has now ended in total ignominy, with people calling him the worst PM for a century at least, is desperately trying to evade responsibility for his own fuck-up and shift the blame onto someone else. If Corbyn had resigned by now, he could at least pretend that it was a bi-partisan failure and not his exclusive possession. No wonder he’s thrashing around haplessly.

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WorldbyStorm - June 29, 2016

The cheek of that. I was astounded by it.

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5. Alibaba - June 29, 2016

So nominations for the leader of the Conservative party have opened. What are the prospects of that fool Boris Johnson becoming leader of the Conservative party? Is it possible that he who acted in defiance of the paymasters of the Conservative Party via Brexit can pull it off? I doubt so.

Here’s another view on Johnson and his leadership prospects:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2016/06/27/sadakat-kadri/bullxit/?utm_source=LRB+online+email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20160628+online&utm_content=ukrw_subsact&hq_e=el&hq_m=4325871&hq_l=9&hq_v=a2247d59c8

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6. roddy - June 29, 2016

How could the guardian be anything but a rag when you look at who it appointed it’s Ireland correspondent.?

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7. Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

I note that Sinn Fein are going to vote against Maureen O’Sullivans Private Members Bill banning hare coursing.

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8. Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

Angela Eagle – the Blairite stalking horse to try and unseat Corbyn – has a bit of a problem. Her Wallasey Constituency Labour Party has come out in support of Corbyn and demanded that Eagle back his leadership.

The next logical step would be for the CLP to deselect Eagle as the Labour representative.

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sonofstan - June 29, 2016

I seriously read that as suggesting the CLR could deselect Eagle……the left illuminati?

Liked by 1 person

Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

There are times even I am astonished – CLP not CLR and it stands for Constituency Labour Party.

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sonofstan - June 29, 2016

yes, thanks. I do know. I misread at first glance. But thanks for leftsplaining.

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Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

you’re welcome

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Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

I am sure I will have to do it again – more than once.

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Ed - June 30, 2016

‘If only I could EXPLAIN to these fools why they were so wrong, they wouldn’t find me so irritatingly patronizing!’

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Ed - June 30, 2016

Any sign of that general strike, JRG?

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Jolly Red Giant - June 30, 2016

Everyone is entitled to hold a political viewpoint – and everyone is entitled to defend that view point. Defending a viewpoint is not patronising – it is normal political activity. Suggesting that someone is not entitled to hold an alternative viewpoint and defend that viewpoint is not only patronising – it is anti-democratic.

As for the general strike – there is a growing militant mood among workers in Britain, particularly in the public sector. Junior doctors have had rolling strikes, teachers have a one day strike next week and there is growing militancy within the RMT, FBU, CWU and other public sector unions. The call for a 24-hour general strike is intended to raise political consciousness and show a way of mobilising opposition to the Tories as they are tearing themselves asunder. It would also bolster Corbyn’s leadership. Given the right-wing nature of large sections of the trade union bureaucracy I do not expect this call to develop beyond propagandising at this stage – but it could become a real prospect if the LP grassroots defeat the coup against Corbyn.

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Ed - June 30, 2016

No, defending a political viewpoint is not being patronising. Being patronising is being patronising. You might want to re-read your posts just above this for an example. And when it’s based on partial knowledge and a cavalier approach to the facts, it can be very aggravating.

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Ed - June 30, 2016

But oh the humanity, won’t someone think of JRG’s right to deliver patronising lectures, and anyone who questions that right is ‘anti-democratic’.

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Gewerkschaftler - June 30, 2016

That Eagle feels she can ignore the feeling of her own constituency party says a lot about how the typical Labour apparatchik feels about party members.

It’s astounding that they couldn’t find a candidate who’s own constituency party supports their candidacy. Perhaps there just isn’t one.

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9. sonofstan - June 29, 2016

Back in the ’80s, when I lived in Ireland, but spent a lot of time in the UK, my pet hate was English leftists explaining Ireland to me. Now, I live in England and have to put up with Irish leftists here telling me what’s really going on.

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Michael Carley - June 29, 2016

You and me both.

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RosencrantzisDead - June 29, 2016

That’s not fair, SoS.

All of those Irish Leftists are taking their instructions from London.

Liked by 2 people

Peter James - June 29, 2016

I need your help SoS ! Can you explain England to me? And when that’s done have a go with Ireland.

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10. makedoanmend - June 29, 2016

sans comment

” Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chainstores.”

Monbiot’s blog:

http://www.monbiot.com/2016/06/29/roots-in-the-rubble/

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11. roddy - June 29, 2016

How did we get diverted to hare coursing?

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Joe - June 29, 2016

One of my TDs is putting forward a private members’ bill to ban it. Another of my TDs and her party are opposing the bill, apparently. I’d say my other TD will also oppose it but I know for sure that pretty much all of their constituents couldn’t give a flying f*** either way.

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Jolly Red Giant - June 29, 2016

You do have a grasp on what the weekly ‘What you Want to Say’ thread is about – don’t you?

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Gewerkschaftler - June 30, 2016

Did we?

What about Ash tree die-off, that’s what I want to know?

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12. roddy - June 29, 2016

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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13. Joe - June 30, 2016

I was off cycling down the Grand Canal with some old mates last weekend. We got to Sallins on the Friday and got into a pub for some soup and to get out of the rain. Sky News was on and the barman was the first ordinary joe I heard talking about the Brexit result.
His view was that the Brits were right and we should do the same. I didn’t ask him why he thought that for fear he’d come out with some racist unpleasantness. But I worry – how much of an anti-immigrant Irexit feeling is out there just under the surface in dear old Erin?

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WorldbyStorm - June 30, 2016

SFA I’d think, two polls this year, one in Jan one in May had 80-90 % plus levels of Remain in EU sentiment (I paraphrase), in event of Brexit the May poll saw the figure drop to 82% IIRC.

I had a slightly different experience at weekend in Dublin city centre, a lot of people working in ships talking about it none positively .

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14. Jolly Red Giant - June 30, 2016

It didn’t take long for the little Englander Tories to start tearing into each other. Gove just announced he will be a candidate for the Tory leadership with an attack on Boris Johnson.

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15. roddy - June 30, 2016

JOHNSON NOT RUNNING!

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Gewerkschaftler - June 30, 2016

Has he ever run in his life? At school his fag probably substituted for him on the sports field.

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CMK - June 30, 2016

Hopefully, he’ll f**k off forever and keep his mouth shut. I would say an increasing proportion of British people will start to notice that about the only politician holding his own under intense pressure right now is Jeremy Corbyn. Johnson, like the RENUA cretins here, is a media creation who has precisely zero political substance. The more intelligent elements in the Tory party know that with him at the helm they are doomed. A couple of years, months even, of Johnson v. Corbyn prime ministers questions would have only one winner and all of the bias and positive spin would not save Johnson. A contemptible scumbag hopefully he’ll depart politics and stick to writing rubbish history books that no-one reads.

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FergusD - June 30, 2016

Like it GWS! Poor BoJo, he didn’t want to win the referendum, just mortally wound Cameron so he could step in, with the support of the majority of Tory mmebers who are EU haters. But he won! Fortunately Gove, a true believer (?) has saved him and he can wonder off somewhere.

The bloody cheek of Cameron and the Blairites and the media, trying to blame Corbyn! It was the Tories wot lost it. Most LP supporters voted Remain apparently, anyone know what the polls say about Tory voters?

Nevertheless the LP shouldn’t get involved in any dodgy tricks to block Brexit but rather should now be campaigner to improve workers rights etc.

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16. roddy - June 30, 2016

People from this type of background usually have a skeleton or two in the cupboard.What;s the betting somebody found the keys to the cupboard?

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sonofstan - June 30, 2016

The skeletons are out and in full view and no one cares.

In 1988 the young Johnson was sacked from The Times for fabricating a quote in an article, and in 2004 he was “relieved of his duties” as shadow arts minister of the Tory Party for allegedly lying about an extra-marital affair.

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17. Starkadder - June 30, 2016

Have ye seen this from Slugger?🙂

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crocodileshoes - June 30, 2016

Conspiracy theory – this is the Internet, no? – Rupert Murdoch has chosen his man.

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18. Michael Carley - June 30, 2016

Gary Younge on great form today (read all of it):

The thing people often forget about Aesop’s fable of the boy who cried wolf is that in the end, there really was a wolf. Indeed, the story wouldn’t have its moral if the wolf didn’t show up and ravage the shepherd boy’s flock. Lying has consequences that last far longer than individual acts of deception: it ruins the liar’s ability to convince people when it really matters.

The source of the mistrust between the establishment and the country isn’t difficult to fathom. Next week the Chilcot inquiry will publish its findings into the Iraq war. After Iraq, we faced an economic crisis that few experts saw coming until it was too late. Then followed austerity; now the experts said this was precisely the wrong response to the crisis, but it happened anyway.

When leaders choose the facts that suit them, ignore the facts that don’t and, in the absence of suitable facts, simply make things up, people don’t stop believing in facts – they stop believing in leaders. They do so not because they are over-emotional, under-educated, bigoted or hard-headed, but because trust has been eroded to such a point that the message has been so tainted by the messenger as to render it worthless.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making

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FergusD - June 30, 2016

maybe so but on the othe rhand many belived the bullshit from the Brexiteers and from the press (Sun, Mail). In the cas eof teh press it has been going on since the year dot.

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Michael Carley - June 30, 2016

I don’t think Younge would disagree with that.

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Ed - June 30, 2016

I’ll have to launch a sudden raid on that link later today so I can print it off without seeing anything else on the Guardian website. It’s like trying to kill the Medusa without being turned to stone.

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19. Gewerkschaftler - June 30, 2016

And the Guardian is back on the Corbyn bashing again.

Pseudo-antisemitism again.

How’s this for logic:

If I assert “A is to B as C is to D”, am I asserting that “B is like D”.

Not necessarily.

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FergusD - June 30, 2016

Actually I am really a little shocked about just how vile, hypocrtical and offensive the Blairite MPs are. They are happy to destroy the LP utterly to get at Corbyn. I look forward to my next branch meeting, I predict a membership up in arms. Deselect the Blairites!

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FergusD - June 30, 2016

BTW a good article over on Sraid Marx (IMHO) about Brexit, lexit, Corbyn etc.

https://irishmarxism.net/

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EWI - June 30, 2016

They are all, after all, merely Liberals in Labour clothing. Hopefully unlike the Irish version, the natural membership can save the party.

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Ed - July 1, 2016

Tsipi Livni comments on the Guardian’s fabricated quote:

“Just as all Muslims are not to blame for ISIS, not all Brits are to blame for Corbyn”

Expect a rash of ‘Outrage as war criminal compares leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition to ISIS’ headlines. Sauce for the goose and all that.

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20. oconnorlysaght - June 30, 2016

/Users/user/Desktop/Brexit- the hangover..cwk

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21. Jolly Red Giant - June 30, 2016

Sky reporting that 60,000 people have joined the LP in the past couple of days.

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botheredbarney - June 30, 2016

What’s the betting on a breakaway soc dem party being formed in the near future by Hillary Benn and other anti-Corbynites? Something like it happened 30 years ago when Shirley Williams and others formed what morphed into the LibDems.

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Jolly Red Giant - June 30, 2016

Two LPs already exist – one led by Corbyn with a dozen MPs, a few dozen councillors, 400,000 members and tens of thousands more left wing activists and supporters still outside the LP – and one led by Benn, supported by the Murdoch media and the EU elites, comprising nearly 200 MPs, several thousand councillors and no members.

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gendjinn - July 1, 2016

No chance of forcing by-election(s)?

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botheredbarney - July 1, 2016

In a general election before the end of this year the British Labour Party would see half a dozen or more of its safe seats being lost as voters switched to Ukip candidates.

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Dr. X - July 1, 2016

They would probably call it something essentially meaningless and anodyne, like “Reform”, or “Renewal”.

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botheredbarney - July 1, 2016

Renua spelled Renew!

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22. roddy - July 1, 2016

I see PBP now say they support a border poll and Irish unity and would have no truck with partitionism.Where does this leave the neo unionist AAA ,the other half of the dail alliance?

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WorldbyStorm - July 1, 2016

Is this an official statement – do you have a link?

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Jolly Red Giant - July 1, 2016

As the saying goes roddy – God loves a trier –

Here is the video from Brid Smith

It is worth noting that SF carried an article on the An Phoblacht website that PBP were backing a border poll (the first 20 seconds of the video) – and then completely ignored the rest of the video where Brid Smith made trenchant criticisms of SF for their attitude on the EU referendum, on their imposition of austerity in the North and claiming that SF raised the issue of a border poll to distract for their stance on the EU and their pro-austerity policies.

As for the claim that the AAA are ‘neo unionist’ – Who sat down and signed an agreement with British Imperialism that reinforced the border and British control of the North? Who sits in government in that bastion of unionism, Stormont? Who bends to the diktats of the Tories and imposes job cuts, wage cuts, attacks on workers rights, privatisation and other austerity measures while in government in Stormont?

And by the way – the agreement between the AAA and the PBP allows for either group to adopt independent positions on different political issues while still working together on an agreed programme. It allows two different political groups to work together where there is agreement. SF are involved in the same thing – SF support a border poll, the DUP oppose a border poll yet SF and the DUP can have an agreed programme to impose massive austerity on the working class people of the North and happily work together doing so.

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WorldbyStorm - July 1, 2016

A couple of thoughts – why would SF be trying to distract from their pro EU (or rather EU critical but pro Remain) stance? That stance has been vindicated by the Remain vote in the North and is held by up to 90% of the population in this state.

I genuinely contest the idea the GFA reinforced the border or British rule. Shared executive authority between Dublin and Stormontg, all island bodies etc with the capacity for new ones to be introduced at Dublin and Stormonts decision, etc. The border is at its softest for our lifetimes.

Complaints about the actual administration are more plausible but only if one ignores the fact of institutional structures estb by overwhelming vote of the people if this island in two referenda. One can complain about SF participation but I wouldn’t gamble on handing over executive power to the DUP or unionism in the context of a society where flag protests alone have such capacity to destabilise and where the past I’d very much inflecting the present.

NI is suu generis in that respect and will be for done time to come. Moreover there are no forces with any political or societal weight capable of presenting an alternative any time soon. Finely even in those institutional constraints SF for all its flaws did push back however imperfectly. How could it do otherwise given its own class base? Insufficiently, perhaps so but much more so than the simplistic picture attempting to be presented here.

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Jolly Red Giant - July 1, 2016

With all due respect WbS – your comment is nothing more than a justification for SF joining an austerity government with the DUP and the Tories.

The two referendums were passed North and South because people wanted an end to the violence and repression that had caused misery for countless people over 25 years.

In terms of movement politically – SF moved 95% and the Unionists 5%. The border is no ‘softer’ now than it was 40 years ago – the only difference is that British troops and the RUC are not policing it because there is no threat of paramilitary violence.

As for handing over executive power to the DUP – well that is the same argument that the LP have consistently used in the South for going into coalition with FG – if they didn’t FG would be far worse. By hopping into bed with the DUP, SF are still imposing Tory austerity, still being cheerleaders for the privatisation of public services.

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WorldbyStorm - July 1, 2016

Again you’re not addressing what i actually wrote. I’m not talking about motivations for the vote in the referenda, I’m talking about the constitutional structures established on foot of them. We can ponder the motivations all day long but those structures exist and were assented to.

I’d love to see how you justify your percentages but here’s one for you, given that the DUP took almost a decade to enter govt with SF in the Executive what percentage do you think that represents ? Actually don’t answer, we really don’t need more simplification here.

Your point re the LP and FG isn’t comparing like and like, FG for all its faults doesn’t have quite the historical baggage of unionist rule in the North, and you ignore or confuse the reality of the distinctions between political ideologies and communal sectarian and or religious and national identity conflicts. These latter simply can’t be treated as if its a simple conflict between left and right. Or capital and workers.

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23. roddy - July 1, 2016

Google Brid Smith “clarifying PBP’S position on a united Ireland”

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CMK - July 1, 2016

That’s the same statement that attacks Sinn Fein for its idiotic attacks on the Left such as this: http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/26158

And when you’re a member of a party jointly administering the Crown’s rule in Northern Ireland then you should have pause for thought before slagging off other parties as ‘neo-unionist’.

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Jolly Red Giant - July 1, 2016

You beat me to it CMK😉

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24. roddy - July 1, 2016

As far as i know SF is callling for a border poll to escape “the crowns rule” while the SP want crown rule to continue indefinitely.An examination of SP transfers in East Belfast sheds some light on their position- 15% to the far right TUV ,3% to SF and 0% to the SDLP! .No wonder they can’t advocate an anti imperialist line when their miniscule Northern vote is so dependent on right wing unionists and tory Alliance types!

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25. Deadon@hell.com - July 1, 2016

I would take those transfer to mean there support is just not able to stomach giving a transfer to sectarian killers.

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WorldbyStorm - July 1, 2016

Childish comment – not appropriate for this site.

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26. oconnorlysaght - July 1, 2016

‘there (sic) support is just not able to stomach giving a transfer to sectarian killers’, yet that support gives five times as many transfers to TUV- and none to the determinedly non-violent SDLP.
Logic is not your strong point, Deadon@hell.com.

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27. roddy - July 1, 2016

In the same constituency they gave 5% to the political wing of the shankhill butchers,,5% to the DUP,4% to UKIP, 7% to UUP (who actually stood on a joint ticket with Cameron’s Tory’s in 2010) So 36 % of their transfers went to a mixture of xzenaphobes,sectarian killers and right wingers.(the combined TUV/UKIP 20% is interesting.Add on the 20 % for the tory alliance party and it really says it all!

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Jolly Red Giant - July 1, 2016

It really bugs the crap out of you that SP members are around to remind you that SF – the party of Irish Republicanism – is part of a coalition government with the DUP in Stormont, that bastion of unionist domination in the North, and implementing the austerity programme of a British Imperialist government run by the Tories.

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28. roddy - July 1, 2016

Could you explain to me how it’s “sectarian” for SF to call for a border poll but its not sectarian for the PBP half of your Dail party to call for a border poll..Also I’ll take your ranting about British imperialism seriously when JUST ONE of your spokespeople or election candidates north of the border utter the words “British imperialism”.They won’t because their totally embarassing vote would disappear altogether and the civil servants of North Down would turf them out of NIPSA. (And please don’t quote some obscure statement by Peter Whatshisname circa 1972)!

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CMK - July 1, 2016

Google’s your friend, roddy, or, in this case, maybe not.

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29. Deadon@hell.com - July 1, 2016

Following on from Roddy’s use of “the political wing of the shank hill butchers” can we now refer to his group from now on as “the political wing of the Kingsmill massacre gang”?

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WorldbyStorm - July 1, 2016

I don’t know. Perhaps you should own your lowering of the tone.

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30. dublinstreams - July 1, 2016

Mark Moloney An Phoblacht writer going round saying he may report AAA/PBP to SIPO because TDs have differing opinions on the Northern question https://twitter.com/MarkMDub/status/748164608989478912 just ridiculous

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31. roddy - July 1, 2016

I think Moloney is taking the piss but one thing I have noticed is that the SP is a humour free zone.But saying as you’re there maybe you could answer the question your ilk refuse to answer.Is it “sectarian”to demand a border poll ?

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Jolly Red Giant - July 1, 2016

When SF demand it as part of their strategy of trying to use demographic changes – absolutely yes.

In 1973 SF had an opportunity to participate in a border poll – and instead they boycotted it.

And just to be clear – in 1973 the SP opposed the border poll because it too was call for sectarian purposes by the Brits.

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sonofstan - July 1, 2016

When you talk about the SP in 1973, who exactly do you mean?

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ejh - July 2, 2016

We’re doing 1973? That’s a relief.

Normally these discussions are all “what was the slogan on Socialist Worker in 1972”.

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32. roddy - July 1, 2016

Don’t call them the Brits.Your Northern wing never do.

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33. roddy - July 2, 2016

sindo poll -FG30 FF26 SF20 IND8 LAB7 AAAPBP 4

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34. paulculloty82 - July 2, 2016

Greens 3, SD 2 for completeness.

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35. yourcousin - July 4, 2016

Liked by 1 person

36. sonofstan - July 4, 2016

Farage resigns. Wants his life back. No one believes him. New party by Christmas, with Carswell marooned in continuity UKIP

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WorldbyStorm - July 4, 2016

He’d do it too.

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CMK - July 4, 2016

So much for the Farage-Gove-Johnson troika ushering in a 1000 years of Tory rule following the Brexit vote.

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sonofstan - July 4, 2016

He’s more dangerous outside the tent. If May is the new PM, she’s going to have to sound more Brexie than any actual Brexiter in order to prevent rebellion in their midst. Could be very tricky, since she will actually know what’s going on whereas the above disjunctive triumvirate can snipe all they want.

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CMK - July 4, 2016

He has a media profile that he can use but this ‘I want my life back’ nonsense from a high profile political figure confirms a superficiality and shallowness to the whole Farage phenomenon. He is fundamentally a clown and a media creation, I don’t think he will be up to much from here on in. A political figure who packs it in two weeks after getting a huge, from his perspective, political ‘win’ won’t have the capacity to do any long term damage.

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sonofstan - July 4, 2016

‘Superficial and shallow’ doens’t seem to be such a huge drawback these days.

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WorldbyStorm - July 4, 2016

To a point, but not entirely superficial even putting ones feelings about the core issue to one side, there were very real fears on the part of Tory MPs that UKIP could eat some of their lunches and amongst others it was a handy stick to force Cameron to grant a referendum. He’s clownish but functionally not entirely a clown. And some would say the damage is done.

+1 sos re May. And she is reactionary enough as it is.

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CMK - July 4, 2016

Gove, Farage and Johson got what they wanted: a vote for the UK to leave the EU. If there was a scintilla of substance to any of them they would have gone in for the ‘kill’ and capitalised on their advance but none seem to know what to do with their ‘win’, which is the essence of political superficiality. Contrast with Corbyn, a political figure easily under the most sustained media pressure outside of wartime, and who, touch wood, seems not to be wobbling. Political substance will out, in the end.

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WorldbyStorm - July 4, 2016

But Give, Farage etc also wanted to push the dial further rightwards, its never just been the EU, one if their perennial complaints was of Europe being anti business and intrusive on social affairs and May or Leadsom will deliver that too. Indeed a fractured LP is clearly going to be weaker now. All good from the perspective of the right even if individuals are jettisoned along the way.

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WorldbyStorm - July 4, 2016

And just to add Give is running still for leader of the Tories and will.like Johnson be in cabinet under whatever leader elected. Garage is in a different position, he’s not an MP or likely to he one and his pulpit in the EU Parliament is a time limited resource now.

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dublinstreams - July 4, 2016

i thought he was resigning to save UKIP from being usurped by another party created by a major leave funder, who doesn’t want him as the face of UK Independence http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage

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37. Joe - July 4, 2016

Nutsy out the gap too. All the great ones are moving on.

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sonofstan - July 4, 2016

I hadn’t realised that about Fenlon. First thing to bring a smile to my face in a while….

Liked by 1 person

sonofstan - July 4, 2016

Actually second thing that made me smile this morning was learning that 22 bus drivers from Fizzbra won the Euromillions. And turned up for work today. At least some of them.

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Joe - July 4, 2016

Great story yeah. But f’ing b’stards … I had a ticket in that draw too.

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sonofstan - July 4, 2016

I like to think there was 22 of them in memory of that now defunct bus route

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Joe - July 4, 2016

I’m not as local as you Sos. The 31 and 32 were the buses of my childhood.

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irishelectionliterature - July 4, 2016

Surprised he didn’t see out the season. That said the football in Tallaght has been woeful since he took over. Last Thursday night against Rops was shocking. They were shite and we were even worse.
I gather Stephen Bradley will take charge but I would have hoped that the board had someone decent lined up

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Joe - July 4, 2016

Just remembered a funnyish story from my LoI supporting days, late seventies/early eighties. Walking to a Rovers against Derry game and a bunch of Rovers fans in front of us with a derogatory chant for the Derry manager. It was to the rhythm of another popular chant of the time: “We are the famous football hooligans”. The chant for the Derry manager was: “Jim So and So is a homosexual”.
One of the Rovers yobs got his chants mixed up and/or got out and proud with: “We are the famous homosexuals”.
Honestly, it was very funny at the time.

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sonofstan - July 4, 2016

Guy I used to know claimed that when he was at our school but a little later that us, there was a dyslexic supporter of the local LoI club who had ‘The Bosh’ written on the cover of his jotter.

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Joe - July 4, 2016

The Mighty Bosh…

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38. Ed - July 4, 2016

Interesting post-Brexit poll here:

https://t.co/AEiqG2N56m

One notable finding on p. 126 – if people are given a straight choice between preserving free movement of labour while staying in the single market, or scrapping it while leaving, 37% prefer the former, while 33% prefer the latter.

According to this survey, the percentage of Labour voters opting for Remain was even higher than suggested by Lord Ashcroft’s earlier poll (he had it at 63%; here, it’s 71%). But in a tribute to the power of the British media in shaping perceptions, Corbyn’s referendum performance is still rated more poorly than Cameron’s (10% thought Corbyn performed well, against 62% who didn’t; 23% thought Cameron performed well, against 48% who didn’t). The guy who called the vote in the first place, made a complete balls of it, could only deliver 43% of his voters for Remain and had to resign in total ignominy is given more credit than the guy who deliver 71% of his voters for Remain. C’est la vie. They didn’t ask about Nicola Sturgeon, but I suspect if they had, she would have been given credit for running a good campaign, even though she could only deliver 63% of SNP voters for Remain.

Liked by 2 people

WorldbyStorm - July 4, 2016

That’s really interesting Ed, thanks a million. A lot to think about on foot of it.

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39. sonofstan - July 4, 2016

Most apposite name ever. There is a home office minister called James Brokenshire

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/government-refuses-guarantee-eu-citizens-living-in-uk-can-stay

Liked by 1 person

40. Starkadder - July 4, 2016

At long last, Hollywood’s making films showing Confederate slaveowners as the villains. Following Spielberg’s “Lincoln”,
“The Free State of Jones” sounds interesting:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/27/the-free-state-of-jones-battles-civil-war-cliches.html

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WorldbyStorm - July 4, 2016

+1

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