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Unfortunate remarks or beliefs by people we like in music and elsewhere…. December 4, 2016

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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I see Kate Bush has come out with some comments on how much she likes one T. May – yeah, that T. May. I’ve never been the worlds biggest fan of Bush, but then again I’ve also quite liked some of her music, so I don’t feel particularly invested in her (wasn’t whatsisname, one of her earlier songs about nuclear war?). But I can well imagine that for some this is extremely unwelcome. Any other examples of people we like in music or the broader culture who hold…erm… different or difficult views or make remarks of the same sort? And how do we square those views? Or is there any point? If the views aren’t totally noxious why worry?

I’ve no fixed view on this – for years I’ve grappled with loving Monster Magnet and Type O Negative both of which groups in different ways seemed to exemplify certain problems (Monster Magnet, kind of sexist videos, Type O, misanthropic but some comments potentially positioned on much more difficult terrain).

Let me call on Julie Bindel for what I term the Bindel defence. Years ago in the Guardian – so long back that I’ve lost the link but kept the quote, she wrote:

In the UK, most rap and hip-hop is consumed by white people, but produced and performed by artists of African-Caribbean descent. Looking around the Glastonbury crowd, I can pick out only one black person among thousands. The racist stereotypes of black men as hyper-masculine misogynists and homophobes are exploited in the marketing of gangsta rap, leading to accusations that it is “worse” than other musical genres in its attitudes to women and gay people – ironic, considering some of the sentiments expressed in hard rock.
Snoop, though, has a reputation for pushing the boundaries even further than contemporaries such as Dizzee Rascal and P Diddy. But of all the deeply controversial gangsta rappers, he is also probably the most charming and has the best sense of humour. Maybe that’s why he gets away with it.
Nevertheless, like Hannah, I really believe Snoop hates women. I will not spend another penny on his music until he has a Damascene conversion, admits he has been a misogynistic creep, and donates a percentage of his profits to end violence against women (I’m not holding my breath). He has given countless young men the permission to view women like he does – as worthless sex objects – and for that I despise the man behind the mic, no matter how good a musician he is.

‘considering some of the sentiments expressed in hard rock’… hmmm… and so we move to a defence based upon ‘…don’t look at what’s happening here, look over there, they’re as bad!’ Funny thing is while sexist imagery certainly existed and exists in hard rock it’s not difficult to avoid it. Sure, some ‘hard rock’ and heavy metal went close to the edge or well across that of misogyny (never developed much of a taste for Guns’n’Roses and a fair old tranche of hair rock for that very reason and for what was arguably lyrical homophobia as well) but not certain that’s characteristic of the whole.

But perhaps Bindel is right, the music/art is the main thing. Or is it?

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Comments»

1. roddy - December 4, 2016

I never could get Christy Moore endorsing Mannix Flynn.

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WorldbyStorm - December 4, 2016

Oh those lads, going in all directions 😉

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2. Thomas Rot - December 4, 2016

PJ Harvey’s support for foxhunting is unfortunate. Still love her music though.

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WorldbyStorm - December 4, 2016

Woah, I did not know that.

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leftcooperation - December 4, 2016

Yeah she’s a strong advocate of fox hunting, as is Brian Ferry whose music I do have a soft spot for some of the solo stuff and that of Roxy Music…I think it is quite difficult to separate the musician from the person. Donald Clarke had a piece on Kate Bush in the IT yesterday http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/donald-clarke-why-shouldn-t-kate-bush-admire-theresa-may-1.2889288

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WorldbyStorm - December 4, 2016

Yeah, Ferry’s a real problem for me. I love Roxy Music but him… 😦

Liked by 1 person

sonofstan - December 4, 2016

I wonder how he and eno would get on these days? The ambient one has become a sound and sane voice recently

Liked by 1 person

crocodileshoes - December 4, 2016

Haven’t you heard Eno’s ambient album ‘Music for Foxhunting’?🙂

Liked by 1 person

WorldbyStorm - December 4, 2016

Every time I read your comment crocodileshoes I keep laughing out loud. Brilliant.

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GW - December 4, 2016

Yea I bought that one.

I particularly liked the horn motifs over the tastefully digitally processed sounds of tearing flesh.

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3. EWI - December 4, 2016

Speaking of ‘artists’, the creator of Dilbert is a wholehearted Trump supporter.

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WorldbyStorm - December 4, 2016

Urghhh.

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Michael Carley - December 4, 2016

But that was implicit in the Dilbert strips anyway: he never mocks people at the top, only fairly junior middle managers.

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Starkadder - December 6, 2016

Speaking as an admirer of the US Comic strip, I’ve never liked “Dilbert” anyway. I find its jokes unfunny and its art crude and charmless. What a shame most Irish people aren’t aware of
wonderful comic strips like “Mutts” by Patrick McDonnell or
“Phoebe and Her Unicorn” by Dana Simpson.

(BTW, my 6 year-old- nephew is enthusiastically reading my
“Popeye” NS collection with my help. 😉 ).

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4. Brian Hanley - December 4, 2016

Apparently someone once said to Louis Armstrong, ‘but Louis, it’s not a wonderful world’ and Armstrong replied ‘yeah, but it’s a great song.’ Which is kind of about the above discussion.

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5. roddy - December 4, 2016

The opposite can then occur. About nearly 2 decades ago,I had no time at all for Tyrone GAA star Peter Canavan and would have loved to have seen him getting his comeuppance on the football field. Then in the midst of a very bitter 20001 Westminster election campaign between SF’s Pat Doherty and the SDLP’s Brid Rogers,Canavan appeared in a newspaper ad supporting Doherty.Suffice to say Canavan was now “Peter the great” and has remained so to this day as far as I am concerned!

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6. oliverbohs - December 4, 2016

I don’t know who Jim Morrison would have voted for had he not died in his twenties; same for Ian Curtis (stuck with Tories?) David Bowie kept away from politics in the main since the 70s. For the best. Kate Bush lives in a big castle doesn’t she? Why the surprise? They’re rock stars not paragons of virtue. It was disappointing reading Keith Richards extolling the virtues in his autobiography of corporate glad handing backstage at gigs but he’s no different to any other of his peers. Bono became a focus of resentment only really when the music quality was undeniably beyond repair

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RosencrantzisDead - December 4, 2016

Bowie did come out against Scottish Independence. It annoyed me and I am a fan, but it was hardly the dumbest political statement he ever made. I suppose you can try to separate the art from the artist.

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7. sonofstan - December 5, 2016

Maybe I’m being over sensitive, but is there a touch of dog whistle anti-semitism here in Bill Drummond’s remarks on McLaren and Rhodes?

http://thequietus.com/articles/21404-bill-drummond-punk-film

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8. Michael Carley - December 5, 2016

Not saying that this would be Bush’s politics, but it wouldn’t be hard to co-opt her music for the mystical fringe of “English nationalism”.

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9. crocodileshoes - December 6, 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/05/john-key-resigns-new-zealand-prime-minister-to-quit
From the borders of politics and music:
No Christmas for John Key
(You have to be a Fall fan of a certain stamina)

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Starkadder - December 6, 2016

Ah yes. I remember that one. From “Live At the Witch Trials”, possibly my favourite Fall album title.

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PDillon - December 6, 2016

The Fall’s ‘No Christmas for John Quays’ is an anti-heroin song, a pun on ‘junkies’.

On the topic, Johnny Ramone made plenty remarks that wouldn’t be popular here, but that’s insignificant when you consider he almost single-handedly saved rock’n’roll.

And the Velvet Underground’s drummer Mo Tucker a few years ago endorsed the Tea Party, said America was sliding towards socialism, talked of Obama’s insanity etc. Still, when the Tea Party (now in power) is forgotten, this will be immortal.

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sonofstan - December 6, 2016

I would be very surprised if MES didn’t vote ‘Leave’ in June. If he voted.

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