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Speaking of water December 6, 2016

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.

…as we were, who is it who wrote this at the weekend in the SBP?

Only the Trotskyists now threaten to prevent the water issue being settled before FF gets back into government.


If the Trostkyists can conjure up a reason to keep the campaign going – and they will work very hard to find one – SF will follow their lead. Where SF goes FF must follow. However it may prove more difficult to get boots o the streets in defence of those guilty of excessive use. ‘Defend the Wasters’ does not as a slogan quite have the same ring as the ‘Right2Water’.

Why it’s Pat Rabbitte, clearly forgetting that he too was a member of not one, but two, parties that disagreed with water charges. And that particular contradiction is echoed in other aspects of this analysis he offers the reader. For example, he argues that the Commission on Water has ‘carefully judged’ conclusions that ‘allow the political centre to talk their way towards finally putting the water issue to bed. Water charges bogged down the last government and now greatly add to the difficulties confronting this one’.

But hold on, what masters of politics, of the political centre, were in that last government? Why the Labour Party as one significant component, and yet it has taken a report from the Commission to find a path forward? Some might say that those who had the opportunity to deal with the issue in a more pragmatic way the first time around and didn’t might not be best placed to judge it now.

And there’s other oddities. He may have a point that elsewhere in Europe water and environmental charges exist, but it sits oddly with his evident pride ‘in the tax net being spread wider than the PAYE sector’ from the 1970s on. I’ve still yet to hear a good reason why income tax is a less good mechanism for funding services than charges – particularly given that in the same paper as mentioned yesterday in terms of individual water usage specifically Ireland is low compared to other EU states. And why his odd distinction between ‘charges designed to help towards [a single water authority]’ being a good thing as against ‘the charges collected in the 1980s [which] merely to help fill a gap in the funding of local authorities’. That seems to me to be a distinction without relevance.

But hey, that’s the way of it I suppose.


1. Paddy Healy - December 6, 2016

Will we be paying 3 times for Water?
When water charges were previously abolished, we wsere already paying for water through general taxation. Then VAT and Motor tax were increased to replace the charges-paying twice! Now the new water charges are to be replaced by additional tax in some form-paying 3 times!
Is there any chance Rabitte would have a late conversion to “extending the tax base ” byond the Paye/VAT net to include a levy on the 37 billion euro rise in the financial assets of the richest 10% of households above peak boom level in 2006?
Credit Suisse Report http://wp.me/pKzXa-n4
Water -Expert Commission Report-Valuable and Detailed Analysis by North Kildare Community Solidarity and Cllr Brendan Young
Full Document http://wp.me/pKzXa-nC
Discussion of this document by anti-water charge campaigners could help to point to a united way ahead for all anti-water charge campaigners


Alibaba - December 6, 2016

Good to get this update. Well done to the Community Solidarity North-Kildare response and proposals about the Expert Commission Report on Water Charges. Excellent one.

I see that “Seamus Healy TD put down an amendment to halt metering but it has been ruled out of order for Committee Stage”. I don’t get this as a Committee hasn’t convened yet. I note that Seamus Healy will “put it down again for Report Stage but we expect it to be ruled out of order also … We have also been told that any bill or motion or amendment which costs the state money can only be put dowm by government. If proposed by any opposition TD or party, such a motion will be ruled out of order! “. I didn’t know this.

As I understand it, water charges will now go to a parliamentary Committee stage (due to report next March). I think these committees typically recommend a Bill or same can be put forward by the government and then voted on. Thereafter it goes back to Committee whereby amendments can be drafted and considered, I believed. Correct me if I have misunderstood the process.

All things considered water charges won’t get sorted for a long time, way into 2017, if at all. It looks like a conveniently delaying exercise to me.


Paddy Healy - December 6, 2016

The amendment by Seamus was to an earlier piece of legislation. But “New Politics” hasn’t changed the Dail rule that opposition deputies cannot propose amendments that cost the state money or COULD cost the state money. The Ceann Comhairle rules such amendments out of order. The only recourse the opposition deputy has is to vote against the entire bill.


2. irishelectionliterature - December 6, 2016

What is excessive usage? There are not many people that think they use excessive water. Filling a swimming pool, a hot tub, watering a lawn, washing the car are really the only ways we can use water excessively. Most people do none of these things.
There are not too many people who wash one garment at a time, put the dishwasher on when there is two cups in it, have a couple of baths daily etc etc


CMK - December 6, 2016

In the imaginations of establishment politicians there are loads of people who fall into each of those categories. During the years long debate on the water charges it is amazing how many times ‘filling swimming pools’ has be invoked to justify these charges. There are probably less than a thousand homes in the country with a private swimming pool but it didn’t stop supporters of the charges making this argument time and again.


lcox - December 6, 2016

… but people with private swimming pools are surprisingly common among the friends and family of our insect overlords…


3. roddy - December 6, 2016

“individual water usage specifically Ireland is low compared to other EU states”- for god sake don’t allow that to reach the ears of the far reaches of loyalism up here.They have long held the belief that their Nationalist neighbours and by extension “freestaters” only use their baths to store coal in!


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