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That point about a ‘united Ireland’ provision in any Brexit deal February 24, 2017

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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Am I missing something here, but surely this is redundant?

the Taoiseach said any Brexit deal should include language that would allow Northern Ireland to easily return to the EU in the event of an united Ireland.
Mr Kenny said the provisions that allowed East Germany to join West Germany and the EU “in a seamless fashion” after the fall of the Berlin wall offered a precedent.
He said that “in such future time, whenever that might be, were it (reunification) to occur, that the north of Ireland would have ease of access to join as a member of the European Union again . . . we want that language inserted into the negotiated treaty, the negotiated outcome, whenever that might occur.”

Or is it that a UI would supersede the ROI and NI? In which case wouldn’t the new entity as a whole be seeking to join the EU?

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1. An Sionnach Fionn - February 24, 2017

I think he wants the precedent set by the German model explicitly spelled out, so Brussels or whoever can’t wriggle out of it at the time. It would seem to imply that any form of reunification would, in Enda’s mind at least, be one of reintegrating the national territory. Ireland would be the continuing state, as with the Federal Republic of Germany/West Germany, not a successor one or similar. This is actually hugely important in terms of international law and EU, UN, etc. membership.

All the talk of confederation/federation fails to take into account these matters and others. A 32 Co state will be the 26 Co state writ large. Albeit with some GFA-style regional government continuing in the north-east.

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WorldbyStorm - February 24, 2017

That does make sense, ASF. Mind you that last point is very intriguing re regional govt.

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irishelectionliterature - February 24, 2017

Also shows that there are probably loads of clauses (big and small) in The Good Friday Agreement that will apply to Brexit. Never mind everything else.

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2. shea - February 24, 2017

depends how the GFA is interpreted.

The north gets a vote

The south gets a vote

That can be interpreted as the north joining the south or the north and the south joining something new.

There is a phase in there about the future of ireland being up to all the people.

No question to vote on is written in the text of the GFA. Its all vague but kenny is working on the eu to basically backing what ever this states interpretation of it is. In terms of getting a blank cheque that could be a big one.

Don’t see how any of this prevents a federal arangement if hypothetically thats what people want in a UI

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An Sionnach Fionn - February 24, 2017

A federation would be a union of two theoretically equal or near-equal states. That federation could be argued to be a new nation-state by opponents or critics, which could cause no end of trouble. Federal Germany absorbed the east as indivdual states not a federation of east and west in a new nation-state. To have done otherwise would have made it a new entity under international law. The reunification of Ireland can only take place in the context of the 26 Cos nation-state reintegrating the 6 Cos. What happens thereafter becomes an internal matter, if federal arrangements are put in place or regional Stormont government is reconfirmed by a revised but now domestic multiparty agreement coupled with separate but related international IRL-UK treaty.

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benmadigan - February 24, 2017

if there is any sort of federal set-up in Ireland its main aim must be to ensure Unionists/Loyalists never have a majority again. They have shown since NI’s inception that they can never be trusted with majority rule, the latest long line of scandals just being the latest proof.

For the record, I am not in favour of adding federalism which adds another layer of government management in a country with a total population that is hardly the size of some big cities.

Extending the powers of municipalities might be the way to go if people no longer want power to be centralized in Dublin.

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EWI - February 25, 2017

Extending the powers of municipalities might be the way to go if people no longer want power to be centralized in Dublin.

Good luck with getting that. The story of the past twenty years is one of accelerating takeover and centralisation in central government of LAs’ powers and autonomy.

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shea - February 24, 2017

at least two.

If a united ireland ever happened, unlikely but if it did i’d like to see the over centralized nature of dublin challenged. West of the shannon doesn’t benefit from it. if society on the island was to be reorganized may as well clean up a few other issues.

I think the GFA lacks alot of clarity. it is open to interpretation. It does not neccesarily read that the 26 absorb the 6 counties. That could be one interpretation.
It all depends on the question put to voters in referendum

Kenny is basically asking for eu backing for a very vague concept. A Blank cheque essentially. Impressive if he gets it.

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sonofstan - February 24, 2017

If anything a UI would increase the dominance of the east coast. Not too far off 3m people in a corridor 100 miles long and 20 wide from Belfast and environs to Bray.

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shea - February 25, 2017

very true.

but i don’t think the wests problems is that dublin or the east in general is greater populated. lack of power over its own environment plays a huge part. Its not the population of dublins fault that power is centralised in dublin wasn’t implying that if it was taken up that way. Am from Dublin my self.

Regional ireland have the power of county councils which is very limited. they also have the power at a given time of a well positioned parochial TD. It is common to bemoan people for voting for a TD who’s highest priority is to fix the roads. But bar the areas that vote parocial TDs there tends not to be any common anger at people having shit roads to begin with. A poor quality road should be more offensive than a parochial TD

Give them and other areas the powers of decent local government/cantons/ provincial parliments, what ever model is agreed to be best suited to sort out there own problems.

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GW - February 25, 2017

Which implies a truly federal structure with the ability to raise taxes at the regional level, some kind of transfer from richer to poorer regions, and far more political autonomy for the regions.

That is the only way that I can see an united Ireland being accepted at some point in the future by a majority of NI unionists.

And yes, making the precedent of the North being able to join the RoI when and if they wish without EU membership problems is important.

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3. soubresauts - February 24, 2017

Among other people watching these developments are the Catalan nationalists who, until now, are being given the cold shoulder by Brussels: “If you opt out of Spain, you opt out of the EU…”

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