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Real reconciliation? March 28, 2017

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.

Michael McDowell makes a somewhat ungenerous point in the SBP on the death of Martin McGuinness, writing:

There will be plenty of time for a sober reflection on his part in a half-century of strife on this island this part in bringing his own campaign of violence to an end.

It wasn’t that simple, was it?

But McDowell does ask some further interesting questions. For example, what does the actual import of the symbolism of our flag mean in relation to orange? And it’s a fair point. Is it possible to envisage a stage further down the line where orange-ism (as he puts it) is incorporated into the cultural life of the nation, and how would that come about and in what form.

Mind you, then his piece takes a different turn again. He muses about Christian-Islamic sectarianism and ‘its implications for a genuine republic’.

There is a civil culture of the republic and that must be shared by all its citizens.

Indeed, but that doesn’t quite lead on to his next point…

Accordingly I would like to hear every Irish Muslim leader state unambiguously that no one should believe or defend the proposition that apostasy – wherever it occurs in the world and not just in Ireland – can ever justify killing or imprisoning the apostate.

If there is a problem with an unambiguous declaration to that effect then sadly we Irish are left with a ‘problem’ with Islam. And Islam in turn has a ‘problem’ with a tolerant, secular republic, which we are entitled to know about.


I’m at a loss to see where this comes from. Is apostasy from Islam a problem in this state? What is he getting at? Any ideas?


1. Chris Beausang - March 28, 2017

i first heard the term ‘apostasy’ on liveline when they did that item on the guy in Cork city who has an information stall to discredit myths about Islam. It refers to the practice the Islamic State have of killing ‘heretics’

I think it’s a dogwhistle and a way for bigots to critique Muslims out of faux concern, as if women’s rights or gay rights is something they authentically care about, rather than just as an excuse to say what they want about members of particular ethnicities


WorldbyStorm - March 28, 2017

I agree. I find it kind of distasteful to be honest that it would crop up.

Liked by 1 person

2. GW - March 28, 2017

I think we have a right to demand that every Christian clearly and unequivocally denounce crimes committed in the past in the name of their religion and any in that might be committed in any of a number of possible futures.

Nothing less will convince me that they are serious in their commitment to liberal values.

Liked by 1 person

GW - March 28, 2017

Oh sorry, that should have been Moslem.

The difference between me and MMcD is that he gets paid to publish his stuff.


3. An Sionnach Fionn - March 28, 2017

Why should the religious or community leaders of the several different strands of Islam in Ireland, holding divergent views based upon what sect, nationality or ethnicity they belong to, or their own personal feelings, have to take collective responsibility for the failings of one or two of their diverse congregations? Or some rogue preachers?

Ian Paisley was a Christian. The pope is a Christian. Therefore the pope should apologise for what Paisley got up to in the 1970s, ’80s and 1990s. And lets have the Patriarch of Constantinople add his apology too while we’re at it!

Liked by 3 people

4. shea - March 28, 2017

interesting idea in his article about co opting the 12th for a secular republican point of view. Yes it was against absolute monarchy and yes it lead to the penal laws and an apartheid system both parts of the island are still untagleing themselves from, education, healthcare and all that. But can that circle be squared.

Not sure how he ended on muslims. Think that stuff in westminster spooked them. The army doing a few drills around merion sq yesterday was a bit odd.


irishelectionliterature - March 28, 2017

There’s a memorial on Merrion Square for members of the defence forces who died in the service of the State. I’ve often seen ‘army drills’ there.


WorldbyStorm - March 28, 2017

I presumed that – the planes flying over – were in advance of an Easter parade or something?


shea - March 29, 2017

Could be it. Saw the plane over head and the staters running around. Didn’t think pageantry.


WorldbyStorm - March 29, 2017

I was wondering was it just one plane, I didn’t see it, but could hear it.


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