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Traditionalism, populism and immigration in Holland March 29, 2017

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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Check out this BBC Analysis podcast for an insight into the Catholic, or cultural Catholics supporting PVV candidates in Holland, in the south of that country. It really does underline how focused on identity politics these new ‘populists’ are.

One notable aspect is that everyone, and I mean everyone, speaks English. But what are they saying, check out the Dutch Labour Party person talking about Rotherham…

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1. EWI - March 29, 2017

The notion keeps re-appearing ever few years in Dutch society of making English an official language (I hate to see the Dutch language – and the other Netherlands languages – retreat in their own country. Same goes for the ongoing invasion by ‘Christmas’).

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Liberius - March 29, 2017

I don’t think there’s any danger of Dutch retreating any time soon as it’s the first language of the bulk of The Netherlands’ population and used as such in social, work and bureaucratic settings. Now if you were minded somewhat like David Starkey (That Jamaican patois rant) then you’d be worried about the Engelse Ziekte where the knowledge of English morphs and changes the way younger generations use words and grammatical concepts in Dutch, but I don’t see how you can stop languages evolving; not that that will stop the sort of people who think like Starkey trying.

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EWI - March 29, 2017

I don’t think there’s any danger of Dutch retreating any time soon as it’s the first language of the bulk of The Netherlands’ population and used as such in social, work and bureaucratic settings.

The same unthinkable applied to Irish at one time.

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Liberius - March 29, 2017

How much interaction with Dutch speakers do you have as a basis for your concerns?

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WorldbyStorm - March 29, 2017

Just on your point above Liberius re not stopping languages from evolving. Completely agree.

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EWI - March 30, 2017

I have lived in the NL (and that’s as far as I’ll humour this line of questioning).

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Liberius - March 30, 2017

You know it would be better if you engaged with this in a slightly more constructive manner given that you’re the one making unsubstantiated claims about the future of Dutch.

For anyone who wants something more on this I’ll link an essay by Marc van Oostendorp of the Meertens Institut and Leiden University. It’s primarily concerned with the replacement of multilingualism with bilingualism where the knowledge of English diminishes the need to learn third languages like German and French, although it also gives a good view of the position of Dutch in the Netherlands pointing out that English has only displaced Dutch in the realms of Masters-level education (and even there it is primarily sciences and technology and not humanities) and international business, both of which are influenced by a high prominence of foreigners in the equation. Only last night it was reported that there is a record number of foreign students studying in the Netherlands at the moment, 112,000.

http://www.vanoostendorp.nl/pdf/bilingualismvsmultilingualism.pdf

http://nos.nl/artikel/2165643-recordaantal-buitenlandse-studenten-in-nederland.html

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Joe - March 30, 2017

Dutch is a great language. Twie pils als u blift. Let op – zakenrollers. Applegebak met slagroom. Ik soek verk. Apols for spelling but what’s not to like?

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Liberius - March 30, 2017

Though may I suggest a pear and pecan option;

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EWI - March 30, 2017

You know it would be better if you engaged with this in a slightly more constructive manner given that you’re the one making unsubstantiated claims about the future of Dutch.

My ‘unsubstantiated’ comes from having lived there, as you’ve already been told.

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Liberius - March 30, 2017

The only thing that has proved is that you should know better.

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EWI - March 30, 2017

The only thing that has proved is that you should know better.

That will ‘learn me’, I guess?

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Bartholomew - March 31, 2017

225 gram basterdsuiker! (0.52)

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oconnorlysaght - March 29, 2017

There was far more outside pressure to abandon Irish.

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GW - March 30, 2017

Our brains are evolved to be mutli-lingual. In places like Switzerland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg etc. it’s normal to speak more than one language every week. In many African countries it’s assumed that you speak more than one language, because of tribal diversity, and a rich variety of indigenous languages families as well as colonial history.

So it’s not a case of displacement, and I think it was a mistake made by proponents of Irish to think in terms of either-or. The Welsh language has fared better because it was accepted that you had to speak both Welsh and English and than islands of mono-lingual Welsh would disappear.

We’re at a disadvantage in that the hegemonic language of capital and it’s administration is English, and can get by with being monolingual. This accident had, I maintain, something to do with the cultural basis for Brexit.

Liked by 1 person

Alibaba - March 30, 2017

That’s an interesting remark about the Irish and Welsh language. Hadn’t thought about it like that.

Liked by 1 person

Michael Carley - March 30, 2017

But the Welsh language movement was very militant, almost equivalent to civil rights action.

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2. Joe - March 30, 2017

Saw a colourful poster in the local chipper for one of those (probably pretend) ‘warrior fighting nights’ in National Stadium recently. The heading was “Táimid laochra”. My teacher would have corrected that straight away with “Is laochra muid”. But, a living language, teanga bheo.

Liked by 1 person

Gerryboy - March 30, 2017

A Christian Brother or other Irish teacher would have beaten the shite out of any boy who said Tá sé la brea inniu. Hope the language police don’t visit that chipper. Iasc agus sceallóga le do thoil.

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Joe - March 30, 2017

Ah now. The shite beating out of wasn’t constant or certain. Our Irish teacher would have sighed and said resignedly: ” Tá sé fear, tá sé fear. Achhh. Is cuma liom, is cuma liom, ní mise a bheidh ag déanamh an scrúdú…”

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Gerryboy - March 30, 2017

Smact béil is better than smact leathar.

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