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HPV “adverse reactions” decreasing… September 20, 2017

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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I find this fascinating, a nugget of information in a front page of the IT Weekend section on the HPV vaccine. It’s a good piece overall and makes some extremely sensible points about risk – for example, those who wouldn’t fly with family would be treated with a lot less seriousness than some of those who are anti-vaccination, despite that naturally like any human activity carrying risk.

But what really struck me was this:

Ironically, the number of adverse reactions reported for Gardasil is dropping just as the debate is heating up. Reports fell from over 250 a year in 2010 and 2011 to 119 in 2016 and just 13 in the first four months of this year. Only some of this fall can be explained by declining uptake.[my italics – wbs]

Perhaps the simple fact that there is more positive information out there and a visibly clearer pushback across the last year or so is having an effect on attitudes that hitherto were pandered to by those against the vaccine?

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1. EWI - September 20, 2017

I would guess that medical staff are now wise to the Catholics’ ploy of claiming everything as an adverse reaction. Supposed rates of this in Ireland are wildly in excess (though still a tiny fraction) of what they are in other European countries.

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2. gendjinn - September 20, 2017

The TB vaccination we all get in Ireland does not work in the United States. Works for us. Does not work for them. The exact same vaccine.

No vaccine is 100% safe. No production process is perfectly safe. No human operation is perfectly safe. Capitalism prioritizes profits over the health and wellbeing of customers. Witness the debasement and corruption of the FDA and USDA since Bill Clinton’s ascension to the White House.

Having lived through the campaign to get the medical field to take Lyme’s disease seriously it’s better to investigate and find an observational, reporting or institutional bias in the data than not to investigate and ignorantly inflict harm on others.

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CL - September 20, 2017

‘The TB vaccination we all get in Ireland does not work in the United States. Works for us. Does not work for them. The exact same vaccine.’
Not quite true.

The BCG vaccine is used in Ireland for children.

” It is used in some countries to prevent severe forms of TB in children. However, BCG is not generally recommended in the United States because it has limited effectiveness for preventing TB overall.”
https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/factsheets/general/tbtravelinfo.htm

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gendjinn - September 20, 2017

The BCG immunization has long been recognized to have a latitude problem. Effective in northern latitudes, decreasing as you get south. Broadly speaking effective in EU studies, found to be ineffective in US studies. Lacking equatorial studies.

For more background search for “role of latitude in bcg”. Or go into bookstore near a university and open any immunology book’s index. It’s long been an interesting oddity that was recently explained

When you make easily refuted mistakes like this the anti-vaxxers seize on it to bolster their position. If you were an expert in the area, or were not in such a hurry to find a google search result that allowed you to prove some stranger on the internet wrong perhaps you would not have made such an error.

“Not quite true.”

Good luck now 😉

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WorldbyStorm - September 20, 2017

No link there gendjinn.

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gendjinn - September 20, 2017

If it’s a feckin link ye want, then fine.

Always “evidence” this, “proof” that and “rational” the other. This tyranny must end!

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WorldbyStorm - September 20, 2017

Explained had a link like thing on it so I assumed you’d got a link there!

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gendjinn - September 20, 2017

Oh no, I did. Just have to rant at the man from time to time. Steel sharpens steel and all.

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CL - September 20, 2017

“Among the 180 countries with available data, 157 countries currently recommend universal BCG vaccination, while the remaining 23 countries have either stopped BCG vaccination (due to a reduction in TB incidence), or never recommended mass BCG immunization and instead favored selective vaccination of “at risk” groups (Figure 2).”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062527/

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gendjinn - September 20, 2017
WorldbyStorm - September 20, 2017

I may be wrong but I don’t think CL was being quite as confrontational as that.

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CL - September 21, 2017

“Numerous efficacy trials indicate that BCG has 60-80% protective efficacy against severe forms of tuberculosis in children, particularly meningitis; its efficacy when given to adults against pulmonary diseases varies geographically probably because of previous infection when BCG is given”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4122754/

Efficacy varies geographically for adults; not so much for children, which is why BCG vaccination continues to be used for millions of children worldwide, many of them living in countries near the equator.

‘The TB vaccination we all get in Ireland does not work in the United States. Works for us. Does not work for them. The exact same vaccine.’
Not quite true.

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gendjinn - September 21, 2017

@WbS, oh I think he is.

Otherwise why would someone outside one’s area of expertise, keep plugging away at being wrong on this?

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CL - September 21, 2017

“‘The TB vaccination we all get in Ireland does not work in the United States.” -gendjinn.

The BCG vaccination is used in the U.S.-because it works:

“Some countries with a low level of TB, such as the United States and England do not give all children the vaccine, but only those considered at particular risk.”
https://www.tbfacts.org/bcg-tb-vaccine/

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gendjinn - September 21, 2017

@CL,

that there has been a latitude issue with the effectiveness of BCG vaccine has been known for over 40 years. Which was the point I was making, that vaccinations and humans are weird and strange things happen.

I do not understand what your beef with that is because it has never been controversial within the scientific community. To the point it’s one of the standard examples of how vaccines are weird, being cited in most undergrad microbiology books.

The 2014 solution to the oddity is linked above.

You are literally arguing against something every biologist is taught. Which is why I know you have just been spending a few minutes googling for a rebuttal rather than understanding what I’ve presented to you or knowing the field.

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CL - September 21, 2017

‘“‘The TB vaccination we all get in Ireland does not work in the United States.” -gendjinn.
An obviously false statement; BCG vaccine does work in the U.S. It is unscientific to argue otherwise.

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3. dublinstreams - September 20, 2017

Not so sure pro vaciination campaign has worked, I was reading a twitter tread about how one parent was ostracised from the others parents for saying she was getting her daughter other take the vacinne, did anyone see that thread and find a link to it?

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