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WP’s Éilis Ryan to contest Dublin European elections July 11, 2018

Posted by guestposter in Uncategorized.
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Workers Party promises ‘loud, smart, socialist’ opposition: The Workers’ Party has announced it will be running Cllr. Éilis Ryan in the European elections for the Dublin constituency. Cllr. Ryan currently represents the North Inner City ward on Dublin City Council.

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1. 1729torus - July 12, 2018

I don’t think State Socialism fits well with Irish people’s libertarian/individualist instincts.

I think a Market Socialist party would do noticeably better than the Worker’s Party, even if it were a little more to the left.

Look at the arguments Chechnya used to have with the Communists and Soviet Union if you want to do a comparative analysis.

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1729torus - July 12, 2018

That Sinn Fein have policy papers on worker owned cooperatives and biogas gives insight into why SF are a more effective leftwing party than Labour.

Instead of increasing their vote by moving to the centre and alienating their voters in the long run, SF are trying to to claim as much of the leftwing political space as possible. This includes the left-liberal space where the Greens would be fairly strong. I wonder how much of an influence their membership of GUE-NGL is having on SF?

I think that SF are also hoping to cooperate with FG in these areas so they can get respectability and look like serious players without selling out their principles in the slightest.

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Gavin Mendel-Gleason - July 14, 2018

I don’t really know what market socialism and state socialism means here, it’s somewhat ambiguous, so I’ll have to hazard some guesses in order to respond.

I’m assuming that by market socialism you mean worker enterprises in something like a Yugoslav model? Really this is a kind of “state” socialism, utilising indicative planning and a public banking system in conjunction with workers enterprises and profit sharing with workers.

The Workers’ Party has promoted cooperatives in a number of discussion documents and policies over the years. They have also promoted the introduction of a public bank and industrial planning through the bank in order to start enterprises.

The Workers’ Party has tended to focus on the creation of state and semi-state enterprises. The reason for this is not because of an opposition to cooperatives as such, but because it’s strategically more important and feasible as a strategic policy move. It’s much easier in the immediate term to start industries through state (and municipal) enterprise.

However, there are probably numerous things the state can do to encourage different models of the firm and this should also be explored. Creating a different legal regime for firm formation is one of them, the second is having control over industrial finance, but this requires a state owned and managed banking system.

Mutuals and cooperative banks for industrial purposes are dangerous and probably ill advised, both in terms of volatility, tendency towards overpoduction/underproduction, and because they can’t be used to make strategic industrial decisions. It’s a poor strategy to attempt a non-state financial system. Yugoslavia is a great example of why not to attempt banking decentralisation.

Yugoslavia is also a good example of why not to encourage worker profit sharing models. It creates powerful centrifugal forces which generate inequality.

The reasoning behind their introduction is that it acts as a motivator for workers. But the actual motivational factor in profit sharing according to the empirical literature is extremely mixed. In intellectual tasks it actually has a tendency to make things worse, and at the same time it creates pressures on workers to engage in behaviours which externalise costs which can have a very negative impact on the public and the environment.

Ultimately we, as socialists, should want to have as much rational planning as is feasible. Public ownership without direct profit sharing, but with worker democracy is the simplest way to start moving in this direction.

With our current technological sophistication, we should be able to achieve much better outcomes than the Soviet Union for instance.

So the Workers’ Party hasn’t been beating the drum of market socialism, because it’s not really strategically the right approach to the problem.

As to whether it would be more popular? I kind of doubt it. Market socialism was one of those things that was promoted a lot in the 70s and 80s, as an alternative to the USSR. I don’t think it has any of the cold war era appeal that it used to have, excepting among a rather older crowd.

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Gavin Mendel-Gleason - July 14, 2018
2. soubresauts - July 13, 2018

Eilis Ryan may be loud, but she’s not smart. She favours the ludicrous public “health” measure of compulsory vaccination. It’s not only totalitarian and fascist, it’s contrary to human rights and to the fundamental medical principle of informed consent.

How would it be implemented? Why, you just withdraw social welfare payments from non-compliant families and ban the kids from public schools. And when that doesn’t produce a “satisfactory” level of “reeducation” and compliance, you deploy the social workers to declare the parents “bad parents” and take their children into “care”. You’d have to call on the police as well of course, and there would be harrowing scenes. But at the end of the day, Big Pharma, I mean, the kids must be protected.

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3. Joe - July 14, 2018

I’d hope that Ms Ryan, and indeed all left candidates, will concentrate on economics in their campaigns and steer clear of minor issues like the one soubresauts highlights.

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Gavin Mendel-Gleason - July 14, 2018

It matters a fair bit when you have a 6mo old who can’t be immunised and some deeply misinformed people decide it’s grand for their kids not to be immunised creating incubators for deadly and brain-damaging diseases like measles.

It’s as much an abuse against individual rights as demanding people have drivers licences and go the speed limit.

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EWI - July 14, 2018

It matters a fair bit when you have a 6mo old who can’t be immunised and some deeply misinformed people decide it’s grand for their kids not to be immunised creating incubators for deadly and brain-damaging diseases like measles.

+1

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Liberius - July 14, 2018

+1

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WorldbyStorm - July 14, 2018

+1

Just thinking when read the original comment we need Liberius too on the case!

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Liberius - July 14, 2018

I’ve read enough of soubresauts’ comments on p.ie to know that there is no point with her/him as the only outcome of that is to be labelled a stooge for big pharma.

With Joe’s comment I think this goes back to the other day with the thread on Lopez Obrador. I don’t think you can create a clean line between issues like this and economics as being sick and caring for someone who is sick has a larger economic impact on the poor than the wealthy (was the elimination of smallpox bad for the working class, or the suppression of tb?). Although I think this is all a bit pointless as an argument anyway as I doubt the WP were planning on that being the lead element of Ryan’s electoral platform, but even so it isn’t wrong to have a policy on it as it is a public health issue and that is important for all of us.

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WorldbyStorm - July 14, 2018

+1. Yes it is the old line about how we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Of course vaccination compulsory afterwards isn’t the lead issue but comforting that it is something taken seriously by someone who is a candidate. And agree completely, difficult to detach vaccination and other health aspects from socioeconomic issues affecting working class people.

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