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How much will you vote? May 20, 2019

Posted by Tomboktu in Democracy, European Parliament.
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So, CLRers, it’s Friday, and you’re in the polling station marking your ballot paper. In this case, I’m going to use the Dublin European Parliament paper for the question I want to ask.

There are four seats (three now and whoever is fourth will take their seat when Brexit is implemented). You’ve voted 1,2,3,4 for the candidates on the left in your order of preference. Being a CLR reader, of course you know that your vote could come into play after that (and, possibly, depending on how far left on the spectrum you vote, expect that it will!)

So, CLRer, do you usually continue down the paper? Do you, for example, decide that — say — the likes of Kelly, Murphy and O’Doherty are so repulsive to you that you’d prefer to see one of the non-left but not-so-repulsive candidates like, maybe, Andrews, Durkan or Fitzgerald get a seat ahead of them, and therefore give a 5,6, and 7 to them (or maybe you include Cuffe in that set, and it’s your 5,6,7,8 that get used to clock those worse than them).

Or do you stop because they are all so unappealing that you will not vote for any of them?

And if you do want to go all they way down, what do you do if you’ve no notion about the quality of the candidate — in my case, McNiffe and Mullan? I can see that McNiffe is using the election to campaign on the rights of children with rare medical disorders, but so did Kathy Sinnott (sort of), so that causes me to hesitate in giving her a preference.

Comments»

1. Joe - May 20, 2019

“You’ve voted 1,2,3,4 for the candidates on the left in your order of preference.” No I haven’t. I’ll be stopping at 3.
“Or do you stop because they are all so unappealing that you will not vote for any of them?” Indeed’n I do.
This time, it will be 1, 2, 3, WP, SP, PbP. I’m not going 4 Daly cos I just know that, if she’s elected, at some stage in the next few years she’ll be up the north in solidarity with some sad case disso or other. And I’d never forgive myself. Better safe than sorry.

Liked by 2 people

Liberius - May 20, 2019

Similar here, if she’s elected I know I’ll be back here with some anti-vax quotes from the bowels of Brussels in the years to come, not that it matters, judging by the crazed reactions of ind left twitter to the notion she might be in the wrong I’m in a very small minority.

On the general topic, I’ve never transferred to anyone I wouldn’t like to see elected and don’t intend to start any time soon.

Liked by 2 people

2. stillradical - May 20, 2019

I’ll be voting Daly 1, Ryan 2, Brien 3, Gannon 4, Harrold 5 – no further. Daly is the only non SF left with any prospect of being elected. I was glad she issued the statement after the insidious campaign by the Labour Party vice chair online, somewhat amusing that her ‘concerns’ only arose during the campaign and not when she was working alongside Daly during the repeal campaign and other issues.

Liked by 5 people

3. Aonrud ⚘ - May 21, 2019

Spare a thought for those of us in NI…

Liked by 4 people

4. Tawdy - May 21, 2019

I held my nose and voted SF for Europe last time. This time I don’t need to hold my nose, I’ll vote for Mick Wallace, no one else.

In the divorce thing it’s a yes from me.

As to a directly elected mayor here in Limerick, it’s a resounding no from me.

I’m in Limerick City East for the local elections I’m giving my number 1 to an old friend who has a snowballs chance in hell, Noel Hannon, Independent, his heart is in the right place.
My only other vote, I will not be going down the page, is to Paul Keller of Solidarity.
The other choices are at best abysmal.

Liked by 1 person

EWI - May 21, 2019

I held my nose and voted SF for Europe last time.

Same here, and I’ll vote for her again as least-worst, with a No.2 for Clare Daly.

Liked by 1 person

EWI - May 22, 2019

(And Alice Higgins too!)

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5. irishelectionliterature - May 21, 2019

I’ll probably throw 6 or 7 candidates down in the Euros.

Liked by 1 person

6. deiseach - May 21, 2019

I always vote a long way down the ballot paper. You have to be really bad not to get some manner of vote from me.

Liked by 1 person

7. gypsybhoy69 - May 21, 2019

Maybe I’m missing something – what’s wrong with this statement?

Vaccines And Vaccinations – Statement

Statement from Clare Daly, TD

It has been brought to my attention that some political opponents have been orchestrating a campaign in an attempt to portray me as anti-vaccine on the basis of Written Questions I’ve tabled to the Minister for Health. For the record and for the avoidance of any doubt, my position on vaccination is as follows:

I have tabled approximately 4,500 quesions since this Dáil convened in 2016, and am one of the top questioners of Ministers in the Dáil on a whole range of topics. For example, I’ve tabled over 40 questions on salmon aquaculture since 2016, 30 or more on seagulls, and 62 questions containing the word ‘prisons’ or ‘prisoners’ (and many more on prison issues in general). In the last two and half months alone, I’ve asked at least 14 questions around foster care and residential services for young people.

I fully support vaccination as an important and hugely valuable public health initiative; myself and my family have received every vaccination going (including the HPV vaccination where applicable). However I also believe that to ensure public confidence in such an important public health initiative that TDs should ensure that the Minister publicly address any concerns people might have in an effort to dispel them. Shutting down debate unfortunately leads to a belief that something is being hidden.

In general, we need better public education with regard to medicine and science, and the best approach possible to public health communication. There must also be a no-fault vaccine damage compensation scheme in place to deal with the tiny minority* of persons who do experience side-effects or harms from vaccines (as happened in the Pandemrix case). Such a scheme is in the current Programme for Government, and was recommended by the Oireachtas Health Committee in 2001. The Vaccine Damage Steering Group re-iterated that recommendation in 2009. The Government has not, to date, acted on this policy, regrettably.

Clare Daly, TD

* Figures from the US no-fault vaccine damage compensation scheme show that for every million vaccine doses eligible for compensation that were distributed between 2006 and 2016, the court compensated one injury victim. Receiving a vaccine is far far less dangerous than staying unvaccinated. The tetanus vaccine, for example, causes a life-threatening allergic reaction in at most 0.0006% of people who get the shot. The U.S. case fatality rate from tetanus, by contrast, is 13.2%.

Liked by 1 person

Joe - May 21, 2019

What’s wrong with it? Open your eyes, man. She’s clearly dodgy on seagulls.

Liked by 2 people

Liberius - May 21, 2019

I fully support vaccination as an important and hugely valuable public health initiative; myself and my family have received every vaccination going (including the HPV vaccination where applicable). However I also believe that to ensure public confidence in such an important public health initiative that TDs should ensure that the Minister publicly address any concerns people might have in an effort to dispel them. Shutting down debate unfortunately leads to a belief that something is being hidden.

There’s your problem as it’s not the public who’s “concerns” are the basis for her questions, do you seriously think that aluminium adjuvants, polysorbate 80 or thiaminase are words dripping off the tongues of normal parents? I know lots of people want to give her the benefit of the doubt but these questions are clearly coming from people who will not now nor ever be convinced of anything, you only have to look at the links and quotes on the REGRET website to know that this is a fully-fledged anti-vax group rather than an alliance of concerned parents. Facilitating them under the basis that you are actually informing the public is disingenuous, indeed that is underlined by her questions on the monies that the HSE has spent on the HPV vaccine information campaign (the thing that should be the frontline for ensuring the public confidence), if she really was about informing the public then she’d be actively participating in that campaign with the supposedly vital information she’d gleamed from Harris, but no, nothing, implying she’s merely acting as a proxy for REGRET.

8th of January 2018

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)

413. To ask the Minister for Health his views on the gardasil HPV vaccine containing thiaminase; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4216/18]

8th of March 2018

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)

393. To ask the Minister for Health the function of polysorbate 80 also known as Tween 80 and polyoxyethylene-sorbitan-20 mono-oleate in the Gardasil HPV Vaccine; the consideration that has been given by his Department that this has contributed towards increased permeability of the blood-brain barrier facilitating the passage of HPV-16-L 1 into the brain tissue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11688/18]

15th of May 2018 (This one isn’t about the HPV vaccine but the long since discredited notion that the whole-cell pertussis vaccine was dangerous)

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)

394. To ask the Minister for Health to outline the consideration he has given to the request from a group (details supplied) to have an inquiry into the vaccine reactions, subsequent injury and early death of some children that received the DPT vaccine; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21010/18]

13th of June 2018

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)

123. To ask the Minister for Health his views on the HSE promotional campaign for the HPV vaccine which contains captions such as armed for life and protect our future and states that the HPV vaccine protects girls from getting cervical cancer when they are older in view of information (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25808/18]

Now people can decide that she’s dodgy on vaccines, conclude they don’t care and then vote for her, but to suggest she’s fine on the topic is to be wilfully myopic.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/search/?s=vaccine+&pid=321

http://www.regret.ie/

Liked by 2 people

gypsybhoy69 - May 21, 2019

Ah Liberius couldn’t you have left me with her statement and the unwillfully myopic option. That’s some detail you’ve pulled together and along with Colm B showing me her stance on Syria it’s painful. I’ve a lot of time for her and that’s hard to shake.

Well look even if I do vote for her it’s me that will have to live with myself. I could always go 1 2 Harold or Brien and lessen my guilty conscience with putting her lower down knowing there’s a good chance it will end up going back to her. That said I really don’t like the SP and even less so PBP. They both have some really brilliant people and good positions but their structures leave me cold. The SP will certainly get my local vote as they do for the Generals but that’s only because the choice makes it very easy.
WP certainly isn’t one for me and hasn’t been for about 20 years. I’m bemused somewhat though by the length of time that could be had comparing the WP and Daly with international leanings and links to unsavoury elements up North but sure wouldn’t that just be whataboutery?.

Liked by 2 people

Joe - May 22, 2019

Good one GypsyB. Maybe you me and ColmB could get together and form our own pure unsullied and unsulliable party with no contradictions or dodgy international links. What? Someone tried that already?

The international leanings are one thing – I wouldn’t be mad about a fair bit of Daly’s nor the WP’s. But you can go and shite if you’re going to suggest any similarity between alleged unsavoury stuff around the WP in the north and the ladykiller dissos.

Liked by 1 person

gypsybhoy69 - May 22, 2019

It’s away and shite so 😷.Jaysus Joe I might have had a good one but if we were playing Top Trumps I think you just got the best card.

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gypsybhoy69 - May 22, 2019

Oops hit reply to early.
the best card…..with ladykillers dissos. If making representation makes you a ladykiller disso or supporting civil liberties for even those you mightn’t like makes you a disso so be it. The party top brass had a great opinion once on civil liberties for the Birmingham 6/Guildford 4 or the killing of Finucane etc,. Perhaps having the odd bon mot for Loyalism makes you a loyalist or voting WP a supporter of the Crown Force. Sure aren’t Labour all dissos after making one a Senator.
As much as beauty is in the eye of the beholder so is ugliness.
Although knowing my recent run of form here somebody’s going to send me a screen grab of Clare’s Saoradh membership.

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Joe - May 22, 2019

Ah please. Are you out of the jacks yet? The ladykiller dissos was a reference to the dissos not to Clare Daly.

What I was taking exception to was what I interpreted as your implication of some sort of equivalence between WP and dissos.
I’m reading it now as an implication of some sort of equivalence between Daly’s “civil liberties work” for dissos and WP’s record of “no civil liberties for people we don’t like”.
Yep, a deep mine of whataboutery is there for us to dig in. Leave it in the ground like the fossil fuels maybe?

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Daniel Rayner O'Connor - May 22, 2019

To break in to this debate. My No.1 will be for Clare Daly. Her position on vaccination I regard as an aberration, but asking ignorant qs. is one thing; if she were to present a bill that would be a qualitative backwards jump.
I usually vote down the card, partly as an intellectual exercise, but also I feel i give the vilest candidate the message; ‘Yes, I gave you a vote that means sod-all.’

Liked by 1 person

stillradical - May 22, 2019

I know Clare Daly a long time, she is not anti vax and her statement issued stated that categorically. She even identified a member of her family who has had the bloody vaccination and it wouldn’t take a genius to figure out who that is. Now if she’s anti vax why is she allowing family members receive vaccination?

Secondly, the people on behalf of whom she has raised questions are not anti vax, they have children who have suffered after receiving the vaccination and have sought answers. I haven’t seen Daly raising questions on behalf of any particular group (happy to be corrected on this). If groups have used or linked to her questions that’s a different matter entirley.

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Liberius - May 22, 2019

Secondly, the people on behalf of whom she has raised questions are not anti vax, they have children who have suffered after receiving the vaccination and have sought answers

Where is the evidence for this? Look at the epidemiological study conducted in Canada last year it failed to link the HPV vaccine to anything, and it’s not the only one either.

RESULTS: The study cohort consisted of 290 939 girls aged 12–17 years who were eligible for vaccination between 2007 and 2013. There was no significant risk for developing an autoimmune disorder following HPV4 vaccination (n = 681; rate ratio 1.12, 95% CI 0.85–1.47), and the association was unchanged by a history of immune-mediated disorders and time since vaccination. Exploratory analyses of individual autoimmune disorders found no significant risks, including for Bell palsy (n = 65; rate ratio 1.73, 95% CI 0.77–3.89), optic neuritis (n = 67; rate ratio 1.57, 95% CI 0.74–3.33) and Graves disease (n = 47; rate ratio 1.55, 95% CI 0.92–2.63).

INTERPRETATION: We did not observe an increased risk of autoimmune disorders following HPV4 vaccination among teenaged girls. These findings should reassure parents and health care providers.

I haven’t seen Daly raising questions on behalf of any particular group

As to that, here’s Daly’s question from 2nd February 2016

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)

62. To ask the Minister for Health if he has recently met with representatives of the Reactions and Effects of Gardasil Resulting in Extreme Trauma, REGRET, group, to discuss available or potential health support services, and other supports for families represented; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3892/16]

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)

This question relates to the parents who organise a group called REGRET. Almost 200 teenage girls have experienced serious side effects having taken the‎ human papillomavirus HPV vaccine. Has the Minister met with that group recently to discuss what supports might be put in place? While we might debate their origin the problems these young women are experiencing are undoubtedly real and the families need urgent support.

If you’re being generous that last one one does raise doubt over origin of symptoms, however I think it is somewhat undermined by the three years of questions that followed in spite of the overwhelming scientific evidence failing to link the HPV vaccine to any of the many claimed illnesses. Again the nature of some of those questions implies a high degree of contact with the anti-vax movement as nobody other than them is obsessed with aluminium adjuvants or even more esoteric things like polysorbate 80 (E433, emulsifier, common in Ice Cream).

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8. EWI - May 21, 2019

‘How much do you intend to vote?’

I will honour my Fenian forebears, so early and often

Liked by 4 people

Joe - May 22, 2019

Ha ha. Very good EWI.

Liked by 1 person

9. Alibaba - May 23, 2019

I have chosen to give my No. 1 to Clare Daly because of her Brexit stance.

“Europe is at a crossroads. Brexit and rise of the far-right are symptoms of an EU that has prioritised the interests of corporations about those of citizens … The key question is not whether we are ‘for’ or ‘against’ Europe, but rather what type of Europe we are building!”

I also view her vaccination position as DROC’s ‘aberration’.

My next preferences goes to the leftist candidates (leaning against those pro-Brexit) and finally plumping to Labour. I give nothing whatsoever to the right.

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