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Litir um Thoghchán .. May 23, 2019

Posted by irishelectionliterature in Uncategorized.

Anyone know why The Socialist Party didn’t have a litir um thoghán for Rita Harrold?
Seems a bit pointless to run without using that facility, certainly a few candidates ran solely to send them out.

Was it due to PBP-Solidarity being a registered Party and only entitled to one litir um thoghán?

Rather than PBP candidate Gillian Brien just sending one you would have thought one covering both candidates would have been put out?


1. Tomboktu - May 23, 2019

Here is the law (written in 1977, at a time when the European Parliament was called the Assembly of the European Communities):

(1) Subject to paragraph (3) of this Rule, each candidate at an Assembly election shall, subject to such conditions as may be determined by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, be entitled to send, free of any charge for postage, to each person on the register of European Assembly electors for the constituency, one postal communication containing matter relating to the election only and not exceeding two ounces in weight.

[paragraph (2) not relevant]

(3) Where in a constituency two or more candidates at an Assembly election are candidates of the same political party then for the purposes of this Rule those candidates shall be regarded as a single candidate.



2. Paddy Healy - May 23, 2019

Remember the old Northern Joke: So You are an atheist but are you a Catholic or Protestant Atheist. As officially Slidarity/PBPA have nominated two candidates in Dublin perhaps we could ask: Which is the Unionist candidate and which is the Republican candidate? Is Solidarity/Cross Community Labour Alternative supporting the Republican manifesto of Gillian Brien PBPA?


3. Joe - May 23, 2019

Good question and agree entirely, it’s an opportunity missed. As you say, some candidates just run so that they can get the Litir in each door. Which makes sense – you know, if you’ve got a message you want people to hear…
Wonder what the story is/was – did PbP and SP flip a coin?

Liked by 1 person

Paddy Healy - May 23, 2019

No. They couldn’t agree on a joint mamifesto. Because technically they are one party in 26-co law , They were only entitled to one litir Um Thoghacháin and they couldn’t agree on its content! Under different pressures up north they have drifted further apart.


4. gypsybhoy69 - May 23, 2019

The Replacement list – did they toss for order?

1. Barney Doherty
2. Michael O’Brien
3. Nick Lee
4. Cillian Gillespie
5. Sean Carroll
6. Laura Fitzgerald
7. Emma Quinn

Liked by 1 person

5. Joe - May 23, 2019

Anyone know how the Euro count will be done? You know, one count on the basis of three seats, then another on the basis of four? Or what?


6. Paddy Healy - May 23, 2019

It will be necessary to have separate counts for different no of seats. EG Ireland South 4 seats but 5 seats if Brexit actually happens. Quota = Total Valid Poll divided by (no of seats +!). This would give different quotas for different no of seats, If a single count for a five seat constituency were held, a candidate could come fourth who would come fifth in a four seat count, The surplus of the leading candidate would be greater in a five seat count. This greater surplus could advantage a party running mate above other competing candidates!


Tomboktu - May 23, 2019

I could be wrong, but I do not think so, Paddy.

The European Parliament Elections (Amendment) Act 2019 contains the following (in section 6(k)):

For the purpose of the European elections held in the year 2019, the return made by the chief returning officer under paragraph (1) shall declare that the last candidate deemed to be elected, as set out in the public notice given in accordance with rule 92, in each of the constituencies of Dublin and South as specified in the Third Schedule, shall not take up their seats in the European Parliament until such time as a date has been specified by the Parliament for the taking up of such seats.

See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/7/enacted/en/print#sec6


Joe - May 23, 2019

Ah ok. So they treat Dublin as a four seater. Count it as a four seater. Hold the last seat till the Brits brexit.

Liked by 1 person

Tomboktu - May 23, 2019

That’s what it looks like.

The sentence I quoted is the new paragraph (2) of Rule 94.

A new Rule 94 replaces the previous Rule 94.

That is in the Second Schedule to the “Principal Act”.

Move back seven pages, and you learn that the “Principal Act” is the European Parliament Elections Act 1997.

At that stage I decided I had enough reading awful lawful writing. I have not checked what the Second Schedule is and I have not checked if any part of Rule 94 of it has been amended before now.


7. Paddy Healy - May 24, 2019

Although I am organising the Tally of Local elections only for WUAG in Tipp, the interpretation I posted earlier is what has been communicated to me. It is the only way to overcome the fact that the order of election could be different depending on the number of seats in the count. This could end up in the Supreme Court, European Courts etc etc etc. Could different returning officers give different interpretations????


Joe - May 24, 2019

Yep. I would have thought there is potential for legal challenges.


irishelectionliterature - May 24, 2019

Huge potential, crazy not to have two different counts.


EWI - May 24, 2019

Huge potential, crazy not to have two different counts

I fully expect lawsuits. Can imagine FF/FG/LAB happily splashing the cash, and the same happening across the EU from wealthy establishment parties.

Liked by 1 person

8. Paddy Healy - May 24, 2019

Exit Polls Labour Wiped
RED C Had FG 10 % ahead of FF in End Of April Poll! Completely WRONG
European Elections Opinion Poll Analysis https://wp.me/pKzXa-jh
Green Cuffe Heads Poll in Dublin on 23%, Fitzgerald FG on meagre 14 %; FF Andrews on only 12%, Clare Daly and Lynn Boylan (SF) in contention. Alex White Labour Wiped 5%
Ireland South: Deirdre Clune FG MEP (9%) in Trouble to retain second FG seat, Only One FF seat, Green Grace O Sullivan on 12%, Liadh Ni Rada 13%, Mick Wallace 10% . Sheila Nunan Labour Wiped 3%
Local Elections
LABOUR COLLAPSE, FG and FF Down, Greens Surge, Independents Doing Well


Tomboktu - May 24, 2019

If Fitzgerald’s 14% is ‘meagre’ when she has a running mate, doe that mean Ni Rada’s 13% is sub-meagre?


Paddy Healy - May 25, 2019

Ní Riada’s vote is not great. But there are 4 real seats in Ireland South. She should survive. Fitzgerald will also be elected But the votes for her and her running mate are much lower than poll predictions. For government, the most destabilizing thing is the poor performance of Fianna Fáil in addition to the worse than predicted performance of FG


9. Paddy Healy - May 25, 2019

EXIT POLLS:FF could fail to win a Euro seat in Dublin and have no chance in Midlands North West.Barry Andrews on only 12% in Dublin Would Martin have to Go in that event? FF support for Government in Question ? https://wp.me/pKzXa-jh
No Euro seat for Labour! Dire Performance in Locals as Labour fall behind the Greens. Is Howlin Gone? Crisis for Trade Union Leaders?


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