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Well, far from great news from Italy… September 25, 2022

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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From the Guardian…

Giorgia Meloni and far-right Brothers of Italy in line to form new coalition with right getting 41-45% of the vote, while left alliance has 25-29%

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1. benmadigan - September 25, 2022

Torrential rain all day so turnout was low. Naples was flooded.
No actual results in yet. Projections have a 1.8% margin of error.
However, according to exit poll projections, Brothers of Italy are on 26%, Lega on about 8% like Berlusconi’s Forza Italia party.
The Democrats under Enrico Letta are on about 18%, one of their worst results. Maybe because they were following the Mario Draghi line which was not popular.
They refused to form a coalition with the 5Star movement which on about 16%, preferring to match up with some very minor parties which brought them up to around 26%.

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2. 6to5against - September 26, 2022

It’s a bit grim isn’t it? I’m watching now on the BBC where they’re expressing anxiety about Italy’s future relationship with the EU in general, and with Hungary in particular. They’ve referred in passing to possible links between the new Italian Far Right and the US Republicans.
But they’ve made no reference to the UK government at all. I presume that that’s an entirely different type of anti-immigration, right wing fundamentalism.

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benmadigan - September 26, 2022

Italian Far right has long been in cahoots with right wing govts in Poland and Hungary as well as Le Pen in France.
One potential positive I can see is that, since they all support Putin, they may insist on EU peace negotiations rather than war with Russia.
Another is that Giorgia Meloni personally comes from a very poor background (left school early) so she is well aware of the problems the working class faces day in and day out. She may be motivated to do something to help, rather than blindly following Draghi’s neoliberal policies which were not popular. In fact her party was the only in opposition to Draghi and the Italian people obviously appreciated that.

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banjoagbeanjoe - September 27, 2022

“One potential positive I can see is that, since they all support Putin, they may insist on EU peace negotiations rather than war with Russia.
Another is that Giorgia Meloni personally comes from a very poor background (left school early) so she is well aware of the problems the working class faces day in and day out. She may be motivated to do something to help, rather than blindly following Draghi’s neoliberal policies which were not popular. In fact her party was the only in opposition to Draghi and the Italian people obviously appreciated that.”

Ahem? Seriously? No common ground with fascists, including Putin, end of.

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benmadigan - September 27, 2022

Quite frankly BJBJ I wouldn’t care who negotiates a ceasefire and brokers talks to bring this war to closure. If right-wing EU Putin fans manage it, that’s fine with me

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WorldbyStorm - September 27, 2022

It’s hard to see how EU peace negotiations work in that context other than withdrawing support for Ukraine given that Russia has itself turned its back on any such negotiations repeatedly thoughout the course of the war, most recently IIRC at the UN only this week. That means any such closure of the war would lead to Ukraine having an imposed peace and we know the terms that Russia would accept or not including the dismemberment of Ukrainian sovereignty etc. Don’t think that’s something worth supporting tbh. Nor do I suspect it’s within the reach of practical politics on any side. Simply put even the EU collectively or individually at state level isn’t the most important player in terms of support for Ukraine, though it is an important one – as long as NATO supports Ukraine even within the constraints of its own restrictions that is key. Moreover the EU has many more states who are supportive of Ukraine than those against and Poland for example is very much in the support camp (really it’s Hungary that is outside that consensus). It also runs counter to Meloni’s own rhetoric which has been strong support for Ukraine (putting her at odds with Salvini and Berlusconi).

Just on Meloni’s class background, that’s true, but not sure it functions in quite that way. We’ve seen how in other states where far-right leaders have come to power (not least in Italy under Mussolini) that even attachment to the working class at one point doesn’t lead to any particular interest in the working class subsequently. For the likes of Meloni nation comes first – consider the fact Brothers of Italy takes their name from the first words of the Italian national anthem. They see nation as a horizontal category that cuts across or through class encompassing them all. It’s why right populism always seems to hit the buffers in these instances because of their own class bases and their ideology. It’s the old Steve Bannon stuff of talk about the working class but be implacably hostile to any measures that would actually assist, socialised health care, education, etc, etc.

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rockroots - September 27, 2022

Is Wikipedia correct – that the ‘European Conservatives and Reformists Party’ links Brothers, Vox, PiS and the Sweden Democrats with the Ulster Unionist Party? How does that fit with their ‘sensible’ unionist image?

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Aonrud ⚘ - September 27, 2022

A remnant from when the Tories founded it, I assume? Though telling to still be a member.

Interesting the EPP were busy congratulating their franchise in the coalition too.

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3. yourcousin - September 26, 2022

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benmadigan - September 26, 2022

Italians are “more casual” about Fascism because after WWII there was no de-Fascism programme in Italy like the De-Nazism programme in Germany. Fascists continued working undisturbed in their jobs in state and local administrations etc until their retirement in the 1960s and 1970s

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benmadigan - September 26, 2022

PS someone should set up a De-Loyalism programme for NI!

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4. yourcousin - September 27, 2022

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