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A feral society… coming to a street near you soon. March 5, 2009

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Society.
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Last Sunday I was on my way into Dublin city centre around 1 o’clock in the afternoon. I was walking up along Foley Street which runs parallel to Talbot Street. The whole of this area has been redeveloped and is now filled with offices, apartments and even some sort of dance centre. Anyhow, towards the end of the street there was a large gang, perhaps twelve or fifteen kids, all male, in or around their early to mid teens. And in front of them, some way ahead was a man, perhaps in his early thirties. As I drew closer it was obvious that they were following the man, albeit at a slow pace and as I drew even with the man I could see that one or two them were throwing what looked like bits of wood and stuff off the pavement at him. He wasn’t quite running but he was moving fast. They didn’t follow him, but turned off a new side street, but not before one of them had come a little way forward and thrown a hard red ball at him. His face was something to see, completely contorted with anger.

Now all this took place in maybe a minute or a minute and a half. And was entirely silent except for something I didn’t catch the last kid saying.

The man didn’t appear anything out of the ordinary, and it was almost impossible to say if he were Irish or not. At a push I’d maybe say he was Eastern European. But as a little scene of an unhinged fury and feral behaviour it was quite something.

Should I have called the Gardai? Perhaps, but it was literally over almost as soon as it had started and they had completely dispersed literally within seconds.

What was remarkable was that there was a fair number of other people around on the street at the same time. At least five or six including a family and other adults and yet all this remained entirely uncontained. The kids simply didn’t care who was there or who saw them.

Now it’s not as if where I live doesn’t experience this sort of behaviour, and the recent fatal shooting of an adult allegedly by teenagers in the North inner city took place only a short way away from where I live, but violence directed at adults is very very rare. Usually its teen on teen. And even that seems to have diminished, perhaps naturally, over this Winter compared to others.

Sure, there are plenty of flats around the area I was walking through at the weekend and it is indeed a place where people live, so the reality is of crossing turf.

But in the city, in a busy enough part of the city and at that time…

The possible xenophobic aspect is concerning but, on reflection, the whole thing is concerning.

Granted, that was one – arguably anomalous – incident I saw but I couldn’t help thinking about something that montevideo had mentioned over the past week and I quote:

One things for sure, ‘breakfastrollman’ hasn’t been filling the coffers of Statoil/Topaz recently, ask the counter assistants. That demograph, the general op construction worker, is sitting at home or on the street corner, munching Kellogs now. As the evenings lengthen, it’ll be interesting to see what happens when idle young men with no money are wandering through the city and suburbs of our urban centres. That’s going to a challenge for all sides to deal with. ICTU have suggested in the ten point plan that a retraining scheme giving 80% wages to workers engaging in structured upskilling funded in part from the public capital programme is the way to go. What else is going to take young men off the streets? No ones recruiting, and there’s no where to fly to. Interesting times…

There is no doubt that the current economic crisis is going to be extremely difficult for both left and right in terms of how expectations that previously existed have now been effectively sunk and how large numbers of young men, only a little older than those I saw on the street on Sunday, are now facing then prospect of diminishing opportunities for employment.

And let’s not pretend that the pre-existing situation was rosy. Any of us who have any contact with the problems of providing education in communities which the Celtic Tiger avoided will be aware that the demands placed on the education system and teachers both ordinary and special needs by behaviours not significantly less extreme than those I saw are so great even during a time of supposed plenty as to potentially be severe enough to cause it to buckle. Employment has provided a respite for some of the teens who have found themselves trapped in that particular social problem. A means, as it were, to find an even keel eventually.

That employment is going. And perhaps that is one of the reasons the government is taking such pains to stress employment and how they’re trying to save jobs. It’s not that long since we saw the unprecedented scenes of the main street in the capital being almost literally torn up during the Love Ulster riots. And that was during the height of the boom.

Nowhere to fly to indeed.

Comments»

1. D. J. P. O'Kane - March 5, 2009

Sometime in the summer of 2006 I was walking up Dame street, when I witnessed the following affair:

This lad in a shell suit grabbed a blonde woman in her 20s and attempted to kiss her, before she pushed him and slapped his face while shouting ‘GET YOUR HANDS OFF ME’.

Again, it was over in seconds, but as another example of the coarsening of life in the big city, it’s stuck in my mind. . .

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2. Eagle - March 5, 2009

Back in 1988 I was nearly injured when a boy – 12, 13 maybe – crossed the street to take two swipes at my face with a screwdriver. {Fortunately my reflexes were good enough to save me then, not sure same would be true now.} This happened in Dublin just off the north quays, in broad daylight and, across the street, was what looked like his entire neighborhood looking on. Mostly men – older than me – but there were women there too. Not one of them said or did a thing. I was in my mid 20s (it was the day before my wedding) and I took off running figuring I was on a loser no matter what I did in that situation.

Maybe I had the look of a Yankee tourist, but I think the kid would have done the same even if I’d just come from Mayo or Dun Laoghaire or wherever. I was an outsider. Now the outsiders come from further away, but the impulse and mindlessness is the same.

I don’t know that this stuff ever really vanished. I heard tales of this sort from teachers I know throughout the 90s, but maybe it did wane a bit. I don’t know.

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3. ejh - March 5, 2009
4. D. J. P. O'Kane - March 5, 2009

And just to prove that anti-social street violence is not a monopoly of the ‘underclass’, here’s Eileen Battersby (note her comments on the accents of her attackers, who got more than they bargained for):

http://www.anfearrua.com/db.asp?a=topicdisplay&tid=405519

Nay, let us not go to Dublin – ’tis a silly place.

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5. sonofstan - March 5, 2009

I had a chat about this a while back with my co-parent as to whether Dublin was more dangerous now or 30 years ago – specifically in relation to whether it was safe for our 19yo daughter to walk to either of our homes at night or not.

My memory is that in the 70s/ 80s there was a lot more random violence and I was definitely much more careful than I am now about where I walked after dark. My ex reckoned that this is simply because then i was a young male and a prime target, whereas now, as an old gent, I’m invisible.

According to her, while she personally doesn’t feel especially vulnerable, from stories she’s heard in her predominantly female workplace, Dublin after dark now is a lot different and lot scarier for a woman than in the past – even just the level of verbal harassment a young woman has to put up with is intolerable. Her view is this: for better or worse, until the late 80s, a certain trad. respect for women survived in most quarters, and, combined with the advances of feminism, created a space that was, for a while, a lot freer for women than before or since.

Parallel to this, women I know from mediterranean countries – Spain, Italy, Greece – cultures reputedly macho, all say that they find British and irish streets much more threatening than at home, where you may have to put up with whistles or cat calls but never even the intimation of violence from men.

Nevertheless, i remain convinced that Dublin has always been the sort of place where you could get your head kicked in for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and its something relatively resistant to cultural or economic determination.

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6. ejh - March 5, 2009

I lived in Brixton for two and a half years and that always had a reputation for crime and violence, not entirely unjustified.

However, I always felt (and I’m aware that male and female experiences and feelings on this issue can vary considerably) that it was quite a safe place to walk home at night simply because even at four in the morning there were always people about. You were never in the situation of getting off the night bus and then walking half a mile or a mile with nobdy around except whoever you thought might be following you.

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7. Crocodile - March 5, 2009

Where’s Bono when you need him?

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8. Remi Moses - March 5, 2009

Aggression in Foley Street. Now theres a shock.

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9. Jim Monaghan - March 5, 2009

I am afraid it will get worse. Unemployment will affect the poor worst. Those with no skills and little education. Low skilled jobs were disapearing anyway. This recession will speed it up. I remember Foley St. Padraigh Yeates brought me down it, I was in the Sticks then. I thought I knew poverty. Foley St. was a class of it’s own.Random violence is a sort of mindless reaction to the crisis. If we had a mass Socialist alternative it could be directed at a real enemny. Mnay areas are dominated by drug gangs and worse.The Provos in their day could mobilise the youth against drug pushers etc. now they are tamed.As long as the poor keep the violence to each other it is not a problem to the state.I regret to say one of my inlaws was probably right when he said you are better off poor in a rich area than in a poor one.
On a footnote Geldofs nonsense of the “5 Lamps boys”.

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10. Remi Moses - March 5, 2009

“5 Lamps boys”.
‘were coming on strong…tonight of all nights!…Johnnie don’t like it living here in this town….’
I know I shouldn’t but I liked it.
You have had gangs in the north inner city coming back to the 1930s, the Animal Gangs etc.
I saw an English tourist and his missus, in Gardiner Street, minding their own business, get hit with a road sign by a teenage guy trying to impress a girl who was laughing manically across the street, about 10-11 years ago. What did I do about it? Not much really. Made a bit of a show about phoning the cops on my late 90s mobile (which were actually useful as weapons).

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11. goodhardrant - March 5, 2009

Actually, I don’t think it’s all Credit Crunch horror. When I was a teenager back in NI harrassment from young men around my age and older (spides I’m afraid) was pretty ritualised. I got to a certain age, and thought that was it. Not really, I’m afraid. Now I live in the Gulf the worst harrassment I, and my female friends (western,lebanese and otherwise), encounter is from groups of young men. Except they’re _much_ younger now – between 8-13. I know it sounds insane, but it’s really freaky being (sexually?) harrassed by a group of wee boys. And what’s more is it’s really scary. After a certain age, and under a certain number, you have a licence to square up to people and tell them to get stuffed. But if they’re children you feel totally impotent, even if the little gobshites are trying to feel you up.

Also, the children here they have no economic excuse at all. I may not have the “Fear of Da Yoof” that some of my contemporaries have developed, but I when I think how different the future looks for people leaving school now I wonder how I would have coped.

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12. Eamonn - March 5, 2009

As someone who travels thru’ dublin in the early hours, the increase in homeless people in doorways etc.., is staggering. Even along Grafton Street in the morning you can see sleeping bags in doors. As for around Foley street, the alco’s and druggies are taking over. The voilence between themselves was openly tolerated. Walk along Marlborough street and you will see open drug dealing. The city centre is reverting back to a dangerous place and the lack of workers,tourists,cars etc… on the streets means that some streets are without much foot traffic, making them unsafe for passers by.

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13. WorldbyStorm - March 5, 2009

Remi, I take your point, but I did note that this wasn’t unheard of, just the thing of teen on adult violence struck me as a new note…

GHR… that sounds effin horrible…

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14. Remi Moses - March 5, 2009

Jim reminded me of it so I looked it up- That Boomtown Rats video is on youtube, cmon WBS, you know it makes sense! Anybody remember the series of ads RTE did in the late 70s to try and stop people getting drunk and behaving badly? One featured a fella telling his mates about kicking the shite out of someone at a football match, another featured the aforementioned Rats song and some lad out with his bird getting a headbutt, but they all ended with the punchline ‘that’s a sick way to live.’
We should also note here that violence at big GAA games, especially involving Dublin was pretty common in the 70s. I honestly don’t think its any worse for common or garden violence, usually defined as men kicking shit out of other men, but I will defer to women on the subject of how they feel about it.

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15. WorldbyStorm - March 5, 2009

In a way I agree with you. A friend of mine has the argument that the level of violence tends to remain static but rises and falls in different places at times. His though is that Dublin city centre is not much more or less dangerous than it was in 1980 when we were about 15. I would think it was less dangerous, but then again… I don’t seek out trouble… But… perhaps the types of violence change.

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16. Montevideo - March 5, 2009

I would be inclined to reckon that it’s the large housing estates that will be the major problem. The government will try to keep a lid on violence in the city centres (remember we’re all on camera there now), but the suburban estates will be left to fend for themselves. It’ll be the local authority estates and private equally that’ll suffer, both from crime on property and on person. If things descend to that the vigilanties will be recruiting, and they won’t be leftish ones…..

It’ll be interesting to see what happens in Detroit. If they can’t save the car industry in the US, that’ll be the place that’ll blow, as is it’s not Paradise. Then we’ll see how it translates to our lovely isle.

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17. Tortoise - March 6, 2009

I have taught for 33 years in a Second Level designated disadvantaged school (I am exhausted and need to get out soon, but government have stopped early retirement. As the Sindo says “Sack these useless teachers.”). I love the kids I teach, but more importantly, I struggle every day with the help of marvellous colleagues and Principal, to instill in these young people order, discipline and a sense of respect for self and others. My school has a strong sense of caring authority, totally lacking in the kids’ home lives. Amazingly, this works. These children crave discipline, rules, care, the cliche of “tough love”. If you see a bunch of kids, in a classroom or on an estate, the initial reaction is: ‘They are all animals. Please let someone take them on, not me. They’re all beyond help’. But I have found that if you insist, day after boring day on certain rules, certain respect, certain sanctions, the majority, who are just good kids following the head honchos, will peel away and come over to your side. Now you are left with the incorrigible hard-chaws who will never change. But they are a tiny number and will have less influence without their acolytes. I have seen this so often that I feel there must be a lesson here for society in general. “All” young people, even in Foley St. are not beyond help. The violent thugs are really a tiny minority. None of this is much comfort to those who have suffered at the hands of local thugs. But our children are the living representation of all we value or neglect in society. Our neglect has been scandalous, and it will have its day of reckoning every bit as bad as our financial meltdown. We need to grow up and start parenting our kids, acting like adults whose rules these kids can safely kick against, without risking falling into the feral space, the no-rule, adult-free zone. As a 22 year old young “cool” teacher I remember the shock of being regarded as an aged fuddy-duddy by my students. I had to take on the role of dull old adult. It reminded me of Dylan’s “They called me sweet Daddy when I was only a child.” Forget being ‘best friends’ with kids. They have their own friends. What they lack are adult authority figures they can trust and respect and safely rebel against. I totally agree with posters who point out that the poor in disadvantaged communities will be the first to suffer in savage cut-backs. I see this already in my classes but we cannot always blame economic circumstances for kids’ individual behaviour. The worst kids can be well-behaved with the “right” teacher, the right neighbour or trusted adult. We also need to make visible and support the wonderful work that is being done, on a voluntary or paid basis in these communities by people who do not need to be “incentivized” to get up in the morning and do something worthwhile with their lives.

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18. Wednesday - March 6, 2009

From a female perspective I find Dublin relatively safe – there are obviously areas I’d be careful about walking through late at night, but I routinely do walk home late at night (or I did back when I had a life anyway) without worrying about the danger. I certainly wouldn’t have done that in some of the US cities I lived in, although others were fine.

The amount of minor street harassment from men is much lower here than southern Europe, or the US – with the exception of when I lived in Montpelier Hill and had to walk home through Benburb Street (pre-Luas), where any woman on her own was presumed to be “working” even if you were wearing a tracksuit and carrying Tesco bags.

Where Dublin falls down significantly is in the amount of purely random violence by teenagers and even younger kids. Going on my own observations alone I think it’s shockingly bad compared to every other country I’ve spent time in, parts of Britain excepted. And I’m not at all sure they’re going to grow out of it… and if they don’t, then it won’t be long before I’ll have to revise everything I wrote in my first 1.25 paragraphs.

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19. John Green - March 6, 2009

Nick Davies, who wrote Flat Earth News, devoted an earlier work to this topic that might be worth looking at:

Deliberate Tory assaults on the poor and the welfare state are indicted in Davies’s book. It isn’t recession and unemployment per se that cause the streets to become more dangerous: It’s government policies or, more benignly, government neglect. Government’s priorities are elsewhere, after all.

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20. WorldbyStorm - March 6, 2009

Very interesting John. Thanks for that.

Wednesday, what do you think the reason for that violence you ref is?

Tortoise, I’d agree with you entirely. That has to be the way forward. I’ve heard exactly the same analysis from teachers in very similar schools. There is no alternative to engagement and structure and order on lives that otherwise spin off into chaos. Indeed it’s only in the school context that they get a taste of the predictable and the safe… To see the cuts in special needs etc is utterly shortsighted on the part of the govt.

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