Local and European Elections Count Thread – It must be Thursday. June 13, 2024
Posted by guestposter in Uncategorized.trackback
All the news from the counts today. Would people mind adding times to comments with numbers from counts to get a sense of how and when they are posted at. Thanks.
The Cedar Lounge Revolution 
Caught Covid at the count centre on Saturday so been out of action.
For clarity on South
Punch is from County Clare,
Doyle is from Cork city,
Blighe is from near Mitchelstown,
I suspect that the final seat is between Wallace and Ní Murchú. You would have to suspect that the FG transfers would favour Ní Murchú and the Greens Wallace. Blighe’s transferable votes will favour McNamara and to a lesser extent Wallace. I won’t venture a guess.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Would Greens transfer more to Wallace than to Ní Mhurchú? I doubt it.
LikeLike
But maybe…cos Green transfers will be going to all the other ‘mainstream’ remaining candidates too.
PS. Hope you get over the covid quickly James.
LikeLike
Hope you’re okay btw
LikeLike
What’s Punch’s story? I did see a lot of his posters (and roadside boards) up around Clare.
LikeLike
Not sure – a friend in that neck of the woods said he just didn’t have the profile of the other II candidates.
LikeLike
Think Punch is IFA or something along those lines, Well known in Agricultural circles but not outside that.
LikeLike
https://www.thejournal.ie/section/eu-2024/candidate/1250/eddie-punch/
Not IFA. More the small farmers. From Cratloe Co Clare.
I’ll have to be more diligent in my research. I thought he was this fella.
https://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/cork-fisherman-who-faced-down-russian-navy-to-run-for-european-elections/a2098717248.html
LikeLike
After Blighe’s transfers Wallace now c6k ahead of Ní Mhurchú. Looks good for him.
Ní Mhurchú should close the gap on Wallace with Mullins’s transfers. But not by anywhere near 6k.
Ní Mhurchú c2k ahead of O’Sullivan. Mullins’s 43k votes now being distributed. Still an outside chance of O’Sullivan overtaking Ní Mhurchú, because Mullins and O’Sullivan are both Cork afaik.
Ní Mhurchú should close the gap on Wallace with Mullins’s transfers. But not by anywhere near 6k.
So it will be down to most likely O’Sullivan being eliminated last and how many of her transfers will end up with Ní Mhurchú. Green to FF, not great. Cork to Carlow, not great. Woman to woman, a plus.
Can’t see that in the unlikely event it ends up with Ní Mhurchú being eliminated, can’t see her transfer rate to O’Sullivan being any greater than transfers the other way.
Mick is going back to Brussels. Take that, loser left!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Don’t see it that way at all. O’Sullivan is Waterford btw. Think Ní Mhurchú will take it.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Get off this site iel with your facts.
This changes everything!
Less Mullins transfers to O’Sullivan because she’s a Déise girl, not a rebel. Thus more Mullins transfers to Ní Mhurchú. More O’Sullivan transfers to Ní Mhurchú because Carlow don’t beat Waterford every time in the hurling.
It’s Ní Mhurchú… or Wallace.
LikeLiked by 1 person
🙂
LikeLike
Another thing is Ní Mhurchú was beside Mullins in the ballot paper.
LikeLiked by 1 person
And RTÉ radio news just pointed out another thing. Mullins transfers will most likely elect Kelleher. This takes Kelleher out of the transfer mix for O’Sullivan’s transfers. So when O’Sullivan gets eliminated, any of her votes that transferred to Kelleher and then to Ní Mhurchú will go to Ní Mhurchú.
A co-anchor gig with RT News looking more likely for Mick now.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Blighe’s transfers. First to MacNamara, 8132, next Wallace with 4764, then SF Funchion, 4751 and lower to rest. I had difficulty in getting the figures, so https://gript.ie/will-ireland-south-see-loss-of-mick-wallace-despite-big-anti-establishment-blighe-transfer/
LikeLike
Rather than risking infection from that shitlink, Jim, go here for results and counts https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2024/results/#/european/national
LikeLiked by 3 people
12:38 – McManus (36k) eliminated, so assuming 2/3 of that goes to Gildernew, that would temporarily push her narrowly ahead of Mullooly (currently on 72k). Tóibín will naturally transfer more heavily to II, so all comes down to how Chambers’ votes break (unlikely to favour SF, one would imagine).
LikeLike
Ming says (at 12.45) that Mullooly has a 90% chance of winning and that he (Ming) is going to run for President. Interesting possibilities for those greenhouses in the Aras gardens.
LikeLiked by 5 people
Indeed.
LikeLike
15:43 – Gildernew only has a 1,000 vote buffer over Mullooly after the McManus transfers, so that’s her effectively goosed. Meanwhile, in South, Kelleher passes the quota, Grace O’Sullivan is gone, and Ní Mhurchú now only trails Wallace by 1,200 votes.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ní Mhurchú only trails Wallace by 1200 with the Green transfers to come? That’s Mick’s goose cooked.
LikeLike
Even before the Green transfers there’s 5.5k of a Kelleher surplus to be distributed. Most will go to Ní Mhurchú. She’ll be ahead before the last count, the 68.5k Green votes.
It’s cooked goose on the menu in the Daly and Wallace household(s) for the next few days. Mmmmm.
LikeLike
Got to say these counts are kind of tense in ways that I don’t recall before.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So I looked him up on Wikipedia and discovered he went into politics for another reason beside the famous one: “as a protest candidate against his landlord, Fianna Fáil TD Frank Fahey“.
Good man, Ming.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Now a 2k Ní Mhurchú lead after Kelleher’s surplus.
LikeLike
Maybe age, but it is difficult to find the detail amidst the chaff.
LikeLiked by 1 person
https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2024/results/#/european/national
Not difficult at that link, Jim. Click on the link, click on European elections on the screen, click on the map of Ireland for Ireland south or whichever constituency.
It will bring up the current state of play with numbers for the most recent distribution.
Having said that, it won’t give you the detail of each of the preceding counts, what transfers went to whom and so on. There should/must be somewhere where that can be found but I haven’t found it yet.
LikeLike
The Journal has the counts with transfers, but for the smartphone age, each count is posted on a separate page:
https://www.thejournal.ie/section/eu-2024/
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks Tombo. Any links to the counts for the locals?
LikeLike
I haven’t found one.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The Irish Times website has a user-friendly graphic for each constituency that allows you to track through each count. Doesn’t seem to have a pay wall.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Thanks jc. That’s me gone for another few days.
I’ll stick with the numbers though, not with the reportage if it’s to the standard of this piece which jumped right out at me:
“On Sunday, a relative unknown, Hazel Chu became the first councillor elected in Dublin city”
A relative unknown? The writer must be a relative know nothing!
LikeLike
Ah ffs. That’s the 2019 results! 🙂 🙂 🙂
LikeLike
The 2024 results are behind a paywall in the IT for me. jc, are you looking at 2024 results?
LikeLike
Fake news. https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-debunk-election-interference-vot-rigging-claims-asylum-seekers-fine-gael-6407123-Jun2024/
LikeLike
Fianna Fáil Senator Timmy Dooley predicts Cynthia Ní Mhurchú will be elected to the European Parliament- meaning defeat of Mick Wallace :
“A wonderful electoral performance by Cynthia Ní Mhurchú & Billy Kelleher in the European election -Billy has been elected comfortably and Cynthia will also be elected in a little while – super team effort.”
https://x.com/timmydooley/status/1801309934929264704?t=m4l2fnJAlJS8txtTJv-kbA&s=19
No tears for Mick Wallace, but the Munster Euro-delegation is politically awful.
LikeLike
RTÉ interrupted John Creedon just now to tell us that Mick Wallace had not been re-elected.
👍😀
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well, they went to the declaration of the final count.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Rejoice!
AOR and CNM have been elected!
Rejoice!
Let’s hail the Finnish NATO supporting ex Government Minister leftist. 😉
LikeLike
And what was it that turned Finland and the Finnish people into a NATO member country and NATO supporters?
It was its aggressive imperialist neighbour that invaded Ukraine and justified the invasion by saying that Ukrainians don’t really exist, they’re just Russians who don’t know that they are. The Finns saw what was happening and said we could be next for that treatment, what should we do to protect ourselves?
All hail the Finnish NATO supporting ex Government Minister leftist who said Wallace and Daly wouldn’t be welcome back to the Left Group in the European Parliament!
All hail the Irish people who got in first!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Fair enough banjo. Nothing ambiguos there. Hail NATO!
Bloody Sunday Derry? Justification for joining the Provos there or at least not understanding Loyalism?
LikeLike
Ah now gypsybhoy. The Finns hail NATO. If you’ve a problem with that, talk to them.
The Bloody Sunday swerve? The relevance to this conversation?
LikeLike
Jesus you called it. Aggressive Imperialism!
LikeLike
I came across Cynthia Ni Mhurchu back in the good old days, when she was a member of the Eoghan Harris fan club, though unlike her erstwhile mentor she was never a member of The Party. Classic smarmy opportunist, FF is a natural home. I wish some genuine leftist had beaten her to the last sat.
But Wallace was no such thing and if you doubt it just read what he said when Iranian people were being shot and battered of the streets by the thugs of the clerico-capitalist regime.
The Wallace and Daly show were an embarrassment to the left – let’s hope that what will eventually emerge to take their place will be a truly anti-imperialist left which backs the struggles of all peoples against all imperialisms, oppression and exploitation.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Jesus is there nowhere in Irish politics Harris doesn’t have fingerprints on? UUP, FG, Robinson, now FF candidates in 2024???
LikeLike
Fair enough comrade but by that standard we were an embarrassment to the left well before them!
But cheering on AOR and CNM – not saying you did – doesnt sit well with mé. Looking at this:
let’s hope that what will eventually emerge to take their place will be a truly anti-imperialist left which backs the struggles of all peoples against all imperialisms, oppression and exploitation.
Theres nothing in those LE or Euro elections that makes that look any closer. Im not getting any younger. But some will celebrate AOR and CNM getting elected and point to Finnish NATO supporters. A pox on both their houses!
LikeLike
I cheered on AOR and CNM in the counts in this election when it became clear that if they were elected, they’d be replacing CD and MW. The two elected are preferable to the two the electorate kicked out. ColmB sets out the positions and activities of CD and MW that make them beyond the Pale – support for genocidal regimes, anti-vax nonsense. I’ll add in, for myself, giving succour to dissos in the north in the case of CD. They’re my reasons and I’m happy with them. In fact tonight, I’m just happy 🙂
LikeLike
an embarrassment to the left …😀😀….from the DL man. Ex-Sticks, trots , teachers club losers and Labour lovers all united in celebrating the election of O’Riordan and Ni Murachu. Now that’s embarrassing but not surprising. Useful puppets for the state and IT columnists.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Happy Ciro got elected. Someone who’s always actively stood up to the right!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Think that’s assuming everyone who had any problem with CD or MW celebrated others for winning seats in their own right – some did but many of us who also would have known both of them years to some degree or another would either have preferred a different angle from them or the seats to be held by left. I mean the anti vax stuff while a TD and later – these aren’t just Irish times talking points. The lack of focus in their constituents. Etc. there are solid criticisms to be made and worth noting nothing said here over the years impacted on their vote – note tongues bitten for years. Yet they lost. Two seats that with a bit of effort should have been holds. It’s always important to keep in mind who is responsible for a loss and who isn’t.
Re AOr the only ‘celebration’ was Boylan losing. Re South already noted no pleasure in seeing a left seat go.
LikeLike
Thats another point that needs to be looked at GB69. Good strong independent leftists like CP etc did win seats and/or retain them. That was due to work on the ground. There’s a lesson there. One SF and some others have forgotten and a whole heap never learned. Crucial to stopping more of the handful of we know who winning more seats.
LikeLike
You might have some objections there WBS. CP had CD on the canvass with him. I doubt it accounted for the 1% rise in his vote. 😉 Most definitely that hard work on the ground. Hard to believe it’s 20 years since his first run there.
But going back to Finglas – 3 far right candidates (including Fat Pusses brother) coming in with about 3 thousand votes between them is shocking. Conor might be on to something with the cruelty to animal thing although I doubt it as John has been elected with in or around 9 to 10 percent of the first preference votes three elections in a row. It certainly looks like cruelty to humans is a vote winner in Finglas.
LikeLike
Worth recalling that it was the electorate that rejected Wallace and Daly and I suspect it was their eccentric shenanigans like their dailiance with far right Romanian MEP, their regular appearance on the state controlled media of brutal anti-worker regimes, their madcap trip to visit sectarian militia in Iraq etc that lost them the votes they needed to get over the line.
I got over any sympathy for Clare when she was at her anti-vax crap in the Dail, hopefully hugging a rightist will be the bottom line for others.
LikeLike
That’s a fair point re the electorate. In truth a lot of people have bitten their tongues ahead of this election across the years because often one has to deal with what one has instead of what one would like but I would return to the point I made the other day – what could they point to as achievements that resonated with the voters in Dublin and South. Geopolitics – what ever one’s views on their approach – clearly didn’t cut it. Simply put not enough people thought that was sufficient to re elect them. There’s a lesson in there for all left MEPs of whatever stripe. If they can’t link their activities in the EP to a good degree with their voters they’re not going to hold seats.
LikeLike
A fair point maybe but in that case the eleectorate has truly rejected the politics Colm B and some of us may support by even larger margins
LikeLiked by 1 person
To a degree yes. That’s true. There’s been a further left seat in Dublin since Joe Higgins (I suppose at a stretch we could include our former leader, PdR back in ’89). That’s a big loss. I don’t know what MW was politically – confused and chaotic I’d suspect, but in terms of what that seat represented, at least in part, a wish for a broadly left seat that’s a loss too. So this is not a great week for the further left whatever about the problematic aspects of those who held the seats.
I think we’re in a time where across a range of areas there’s a shift to the right. And that’s a problem. But I remember CD and MW saying they’d be back, what was it, monthly, talking in the Oireachtas and elsewhere and I’m not sure that investment of time was made at least not sufficiently. And I hope whoever on the further left gets EP seats in future elections does very clearly make that investment and be seen to be making it – because the perception is what kills people politically.
BTW whatever else no one could argue – and I know you’re not saying that, that this site cheerled AOR et al. Quite the opposite. The relief here is that NB was knocked out, not that a further left EP seat was lost.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was more thinking of the Locals WBS even if I’ve focused on the Euros. I was brought up in Finglas and when i was actively involved in politics it was mostly there. The vote there is very worrying.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m just registering the fact two FF seats in South. Two FG seats in MNW.
1 FF in MNW .
1 FG in South
1FG in Dublin
1FF in Dublin
Probably 2 right Inds.
Probably just 2 SF seats
1 LP
1 left leaning Indo (MNW)
That’s us on the left (spreading that net wide). 4 seats out of 14.
There was just 3 if we exclude the 2GP in 2019. Doesn’t feel like an improvement.
LikeLike
Ah, got you completely. I was looking at Artane and thinking exactly the same gypsybhoy69. Myself and Banjo would know there and everywhere east of there fairly well from back in the day. It’s terrible. But then I’m in NIC these days have been for years and you know yourself what the issues are there.
LikeLike
Note to self – don’t be posting just after your team concede a goal to get beaten in the fourth minute of injury time especially when you’ve had a few sherberts. I was irked by seeing AOR who I see as being a smug arrogant *****. He’s obviously taken over the Joe Costello role in Dalymount of coming and sitting in the guest area prior and post elections. Disliking Wallace and Daly is one thing but getting pleasure from somebody who was active in supporting Joan Burtons cuts is too much for me. And working in the Four Goldmines and seeing CNM up close also added to my irritability.
I should probably get back to just lurking
LikeLiked by 1 person
Get that completely. It’s key distinction.
LikeLike
Well I get that, CNM is an awful opportunist, even by the standards of FF and AOR is just your standard Labour TD, able to sound leftwing when it suits but happy to drop the mask when in government.
I guess my point is that Daly and Wallace’s vile pro-dictator, anti worker stances are not just some flawed versions of left wing politics they are not left wing politics at all – they are Ireland’s version of Sara Wagenacht or George Galloway, albeit, to be fair, so far, minus the anti- immigrant shit of those two.
My feeling about them losing are basically: glad to see them go but sad to see who replaced them. I wish they had been replaced by radical left candidates but that was not to be.
A sherbet or two is in order given the state of things.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well, there’s definitely little by way of good news for the radical left in this election. But, naturally as as supporter of Independent Left, I am thrilled by the poll-toping re-election of Cllr. John Lyons in Artane Whitehall. John’s election shows that with consistent campaigning work on the ground in working class communities, a principled radical socialist can wiin.
in addition John’s vocal public commitment to the struggles of both the Palestinian and Ukrainian peoples shows that such principled anti-imperialism is alive and well. He also stood up unambiguously against anti-immigrant racism despite death threats from the boy-nazis.
Ok, we’re taking socialism in one ward but it’s a glimpse of what’s possible.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Ok, we’re taking socialism in one ward
Agreed
LikeLiked by 1 person
There’s got to be more. That’s why it’s crucial SF engages with this properly.
LikeLike
But why is there any reason for SF to engage. They are told they had a bad election albeit they increased their LEA and EP vote. The radical left are great at setting standards without knowing what those standards mean!
LikeLike
Agreed that the vote for racists in various areas across Dublin and around the country is worrying. ColmB has set out what John Lyons did to counter them – work hard and in a principled way in the community and clearly call out and oppose the racists. Others on the left have done the same and got elected too, Conor Reddy in Ballymun Finglas for one. More on the left got elected than racists got elected.
The struggle continues.
LikeLiked by 2 people
The Left we like has plateaued or declined IMHO
LikeLike
If we demand honest analysis from SF then I agree we must engage in it ourselves: as far as I can work out the radical left have weathered the storm in these elections, largely holding the line. Now that storm of racism on the one hand and mini revival of what we might call (to be generous) the centre left on the other, certainly won’t go away. It will be tough to hold existing radical left Dail seats, not to mention win new ones.
As I said re John Lyons there isn’t exactly a magic formula except the hard slog on the ground plus sticking to principles: no coalition, no pandering to anti-immigrant crap, oppose all imperialisms etc.
Gb is right that SF did well in comparison to the previous Locals and Euros but they’ve definitely fallen back viz the last GE and the opinion polls. Of course they were squeezed by the constant attacks from the media and FFG but I don’t think there’s any doubt they lost ground to the far right/populist right – just look at what happened in Gbs motherland of Finglas – an ignorant gobaloon of a racist topped the poll, leaving SF in the shade.
The fact that SFs belated response to that threat primarily took the form of pandering to anti-immigrant sentiment, especially against Ukrainian refugees, was not only unprincipled but it didn’t work – trying to steal far right clothes only amplifies their politics and pushes more people into their arms.
The other problem is the lack of any “left opposition” in SF – I think many members were probably uncomfortable with the tactics but no one spoke out so the leadership ploughed on regardless. Maybe more critique will emerge now the election is over, as James McBs contribution on CLR indicated.
LikeLiked by 2 people
We haven’t yet discussed this among ourselves so this is a hot take but I wonder did being for animal rights help a bit too? No one else mentioned the issue in their literature but John, who has been active locally to stop animal cruelty. There’s a zeitgeist about this subject.
LikeLike
animal rights came up on our canvass once or twice. Interesting that you mention it.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I was going to mention the football and the sherberts last night but felt it would be better for all concerned if I withdrew from the fray and shut my trap for a while.
Whatever about the state of the left, the state of Bohs! Reynolds has a job of work on his hands. Probably easier though than the job the “left” has, the state of it!
LikeLike
AOR triggered me big time last night but that made me laugh BainSeó. The absolute state of Bohs indeed and you’re right Reynolds job does look easier than job the ‘left’ has.
There’s things you never think you’ll say, well twenty something me would never have seen fifty something me saying it. but when I looked at AOR last night I felt really sorry for Larry O’Toole . A man who bleeds Bohs and him just after losing his seat not being able to enjoy his free time because there’s sweet f**k all to enjoy in how Bohs have been playing lately. And AOR doing the big look at me in the ‘posh’ seats.
LikeLiked by 3 people
LOT really fought the fight the last three decades.
LikeLiked by 2 people
He somehow managed to keep up good relations with some people post-splits. He was, maybe still is, a regular at the Clé Club music and singing night in Libery Hall. The Clé Club was founded by Des Geraghty and others, mostly ex-Sticks afaik.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Interesting de-postering out my way. The v posters for one of the SF council candidates have been taken down but their colleague’s were not.
LikeLiked by 1 person
4 EPP (FG)
4 RE (FF)
3 GUE NGL (2 SF + Ming)
1 or 2 PES (1 Lab + poss McNamara)
1 unknown ‘centrist’? (II’s Mulloly)
LikeLike
Hmmm mulloly surely he’d go right? The II crew wound up at a conference with Melonis Brothers of Italy so will he follow suite. McNamara PES? I was wondering had he said anything about his intentions but I’d have thought he was trending right too.
LikeLike
Can’t imagine McNamara sitting with PES – ECR, most likely.
LikeLike
That’s where I’d have thought he’d be. That or outside the groups entirely.
LikeLike
According to the Journal McNamara has nominated Mattie McGrath’s daughter as his replacement if he vacates the seat. Doesn’t say much for any leftish credentials.
https://www.thejournal.ie/independent-candidates-local-elections-6404454-Jun2024/
LikeLike
Yep. I’d be amazed if he wound up in the PES.
LikeLike
Ind Ire will want to avoid association with far right parties but might be ok with the right populists in ECR? Otherwise I’d say they’ll go for nonaligned.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Mullooly was interviewed on Morning Ireland today in which he discussed this. He said he one group he won’t be in is the ECR.
This isn’t McNamara’s first time in Europe, because he was a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, and may well have contacts in the PES from that time. If Labour don’t block him, he could well renew his relationship with the PES on the European stage.
LikeLike
That’s very unhelpful of Mullooly, very good re the ECR. But who will he be involved with?
Would he go PES? That feels a long way from where he is now.
LikeLike
Why unhelpful?
LikeLike
Because he didn’t say who he wouldn’t rule out 🙂
LikeLike
He did say he is going to Brussels on Sunday and has meetings lined up and will join the group most likely to secure him seats on the agriculture, environment, and fisheries committees.
I’d say he might get one of those.
LikeLiked by 1 person
What happens if that is the ECR, I wonder!
LikeLike
Met my neighbour and Euro candidate Eamon Murphy this morning. He told me that he didn’t run to get elected or even really to garner a big vote. He ran because he could get a litir um thoghcháin delivered to every house in the constituency. Cheaper than any other way of getting his message to people. The candidate pays for the printing of the litir, the state pays the delivery cost. The candidate loses the deposit of €1800 and he’s happy out.
Part of his message was the brown scapular which he told me a bit about. I may not have been paying attention. But wear it when you die and I think Our Lady guarantees you’ll go to heaven. An apparition of Our Lady in Shrewsbury England in the thirteenth century. Apparently more historically validated and authenticated than any other apparition and indeed than many other more recent historical events. I’m sorry I threw out his litir now.
LikeLike
He said even he he saves just one soul it will be worth it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
In one of the count threads I mentioned that the reason a lot of the candidates go for the Euros is monetary gain. I mean the candidates from the big centrist parties and the indos in with a serious chance. Apparently it’s a big earner. Besides salary and perks, I’m guessing some of them see it as a business and/or career opportunity too.
I worked for a few years in the last decade with a lifelong FG stalwart and appratchik. On their National Executive for years, chaired and chairs many a selection convention.
The time of I think it was the last Euros before this one, or maybe the one before that, FG were looking at running three in Leinster. They had a recent president of the IFA as a prospective candidate. Big farmer, seen as a strong candidate. There were negotiations but in the end yer man chose not to run. He wasn’t happy with what FG had promised him in terms of how big a part of the constituency was ‘his’ i.e. that he’d be the lead candidate in and that canvassers would be looking for number ones for him in.
But the way my colleague put it was something like: “He needed more certainty that the seat would be his. He’d be putting in 20/30/40k (I can’t remember how much exactly) of his own money and if he won, he’d be in for x amount. That’s the gamble.”
So I’d say for a lot of the FF, FG, Labour people and big name indos that’s at least as much of what it’s about as anything they can do or achieve ‘for their constituents’.
LikeLiked by 2 people