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Meanwhile in Belfast… April 30, 2014

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Northern Ireland.
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…this evening. RTÉ puts it slightly differently.

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1. Starkadder - April 30, 2014

This is gonna hurt SF’s electoral prospects. Even if Adams
is being truthful in saying he had nothing to do with
McConville’s death, this proves their violent past can’t be
swept under the rug.

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Bob Smiles - April 30, 2014

Won’t matter a damn- vote going up anyway and North not an issue

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Bob Smiles - April 30, 2014

In fact will seem to many that they are picking on him. He agreed to talk to cops weeks ago

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Starkadder - April 30, 2014

You sure? They have been rumblings that some members
of SF see Adams as a liability. And however badly FF, FG
and Labour fare with the Southern voters, none of them has
a leader getting investiaged in connection with a murder.
This would be the idea opportunity for SF to give Adams the
boot.

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shea - May 1, 2014

if he gets charged it won’t be his decision to make, even if he gets bail he won’t be allowed cross the boarder.

Adams is SF’s strongest asset. When i was in it near the end there was idiots whispering for him to resign. They had no comprehension of the different tendencies beyond their own with in the moment and how adams relates to them. They may be in for a baptism of fire now.

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2. roddy - April 30, 2014

At one time or another members of FF,FG ,Labour and many other political formations could have been justifiably investigated for murder.

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3. GeneralPracha - April 30, 2014

I knew he’d be next, when they arrested Ivor Bell a month ago.

Tbh he should have resigned after his brother was sentenced. He did not deal with his niece’s allegations in any acceptable way. How it’ll affect the party and what they’ll do will be interesting to see. Even if he somehow weathers this, I’d say he’ll have to resign as president.

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4. roddy - April 30, 2014

General,arent you a knowledgeable chap altogether.

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GeneralPracha - May 1, 2014

What?

I didn’t like personally how he dealt with his niece’s allegations against his brother.

Bell was privy to most of what went on in the IRA in Belfast during the early stages of the Troubles to when he was forced out of the IRA. Its not unreasonable to think that the PSNI would try and link him with Adams.

Whether he’ll serve any prison time is another matter. I don’t know how strong the PSNI’s case is.

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5. roddy - May 1, 2014

Exactly,you don’t know how srong the psni case is.However you “knew” he’d be arrested next and you “know” he’ll have to resign as president.Could I suggest that like the waiter in “fawlty towers” that in fact “you know nothing”.

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ejh - May 1, 2014

Although the point about Manuel in that episode is that he had in fact carried out the act he was instructed to deny.

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6. Gerryboy - May 1, 2014

Being arrested for interviewing about a murder is one thing; and the ‘timing’ might have political ramifications. Being charged with murder or accessory to murder, would be an entirely different thing. Let’s wait and see if any charges are made by PSNI.

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7. Roger Cole - May 1, 2014

I have been canvassing. The issues do not include those mentioned above. This reality will not be change.

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eamonncork - May 1, 2014

I presume the imminent drafting of the entire male population into a NATO army to fight in the Ukraine is coming up quite a bit.

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8. Joe - May 1, 2014

I doubt it will have any affect at all on the levels of SF support. People know what happened and what was done during the conflict in the North. Twenty plus per cent in the south are happy to vote SF. Thirty plus pecent (?) in the north. This won’t change that.

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9. eamonncork - May 1, 2014

We’ll have to wait and see. I’d have an idea this will do some damage to SF poll wise, though then again the fact that the murder of Jean McConville has been used as a cheap punch line by Kenny and Gilmore so often in the Dail may let the party off the hook.

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hardcorefornerds - May 1, 2014

How many people actually see the Dáil soundbites though? Whereas it’s going to be harder to miss this news. Still, it hardly seems like it will shock many, who’ve already decided to vote SF.

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10. CL - May 1, 2014

“Thanks to the ill-conceived Boston College oral history project the spooks now have another ream of tapes full of allegations from long ago that cannot possibly be proven, mostly from people who are now dead…
it is clear there is really only one target and that is the senior figures in Sinn Fein like Adams, who present such a threat to the established order that they will do anything to bring them down….
No wonder the spooks are out in full flight…
There is zero chance of conviction but the real game is stopping Sinn Fein. They will stoop as low as they can in that regard.”-Niall O’Dowd.
http://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/niallodowd/Why-Gerry-Adams-arrest-is-a-complete-farce.html

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EamonnCork - May 1, 2014

I’ve never felt the same about O’Dowd since he ranted and raved about Irish people not showing enough gratitude to the Americans for all they’ve done for us. This was because some Irish people had, IIRC, the temerity to question George Bush II’s response to 9/11. Anyway, beside the point I suppose.
But is Gerry Adams really ‘a threat to the established order’? Has the established order really been rocked by SF being part of government in the North? Is it quaking in its boots at the prospect of SF being part of a coalition government down here, or rather working out how best to integrate into the system?
And ‘spooks’? Is this all a conspiracy or actually something landed into the laps of the authorities by leaks from the Boston College submissions? And to the extent that the authorities are involved, is it less to do with a ‘threat to the established order’ then their retaliation for SF looking for inquiries into the murky doings of the other side back in the seventies?
I suppose the reason I mentioned O’Dowd’s bona fides is that he’s pretty much a member of the established order himself.
My own view is that all this stuff was covered under the GFA. We all presumed that no-one was going to be prosecuted ever again for what they’d done during the Troubles because everyone had been released from prison for similar actions.
This seemed to be the deal. Personally I think that what you’re looking at here is less the power of the ‘securocrats’ than the power of the media. ‘The Disappeared’ have become a powerful trope. There’s also the fact that I believe the authorities think SF are so far down the democratic road, they can tweak them without fear of the peace process falling apart.
I do think it’s possible to think what’s going on here is unwise without thinking the republican movement are entirely innocent. The IRA shot Jean McConville, ‘spooks’ didn’t make that up. Then again George Bush and Tony Blair were responsible for the death of more civilians than the Provos ever were and no-one ever questioned their right to hold high democratic office. And they were doing that at the same time as standing for election rather than a few decades beforehand. It’s all, I think, a bit more morally complex than partisans on either side would see it.

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CL - May 1, 2014

“It’s going to be very difficult to level a charge against him, because all the evidence is indirect,” said Ed Moloney.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/30/sinn-fein-leader-gerry-adams-arrested-connection-with-ira-murder/xUrADTJZCIhQMZSExLiAlM/story.html

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CL - May 1, 2014

Well, they charged Ivor Bell based on the Boston tapes.

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Bob Smiles - May 1, 2014

Niall O Dowd”s hymn of praise to Denis O Brien isn’t very anti establishment either. The only Fine Gael Provo in the world

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workers republic - May 2, 2014

+1, many good points made, Eamonn .
There’s a consensus that this will not affect SF’s core vote, it will affect the soft floating ex-LP and ex- green( nationalist) FF vote.
Whilst I personally have no knowledge other than what is in the public domain. I believed that if Ivor Bell , the Dark and Dolours said Mrs. Mac Conville was an informer, they would have known, but now I’m not so sure.

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11. EamonnCork - May 1, 2014

Of course no-one involved on either end of the Boston testimonies had any thought of damaging Gerry Adams whatsoever. Never occurred to anyone.

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CL - May 1, 2014

Ed Moloney has been critical of Adams for a long time. But its inconceivable that Moloney, Mcintyre, and Paul Bew when they began this interviewing project could foresee that some of the tapes would be legally appropriated by the PSNI and used in prosecutions.

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yourcousin - May 1, 2014

But it is conceivable that publishing oral histories which name the living in very heinous crimes could very much lead to this outcome. It is ironic that so many of the Boston college interviewees accuse Adams of betraying the republican tradition are seeing their own words used to prosecute former comrades both within and outside of the SF clique.

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CL - May 1, 2014

“According to Hughes all three were centrally involved in the huge wave of IRA bombings that killed 9 people and injured 130 others across Belfast in 21 July 1972 – Bloody Friday. He also claimed that Adams was responsible for the decision to ‘disappear’ informers rather than execute them publicly as was the traditional IRA policy.

These allegations were strongly denied by Adams in a blog post which pointed out that both Moloney, and Anthony McIntyre, the former republican prisoner who interviewed Hughes, were both longstanding critics of his. A number of republican ex-prisoners have come forward to back Adams’ version of events, while others have come out in support of Hughes account.”
http://www.opendemocracy.net/tom-griffin/voice-from-grave-two-mens-war-in-ireland

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12. Noddy - May 1, 2014

famously the first Fine Gael Provo was Vincent Browne – his views seem to have mutated more recently

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13. makedoanmend - May 1, 2014

I appreciate this is a serious matter for the parties involved (non more so than the family of McConville), however I had to smile as a fleeting thought passed through my bonce…

…will the Irish government be voicing concern that one of its Dail members has been detained by a foreign government?

No answer need be supplied.

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14. CL - May 1, 2014

Ed Moloney claims Adams arranged his own arrest.

“The McConville allegations have been like a monkey on his back for the best part of a decade. His party, Sinn Fein—Irish for “We Ourselves”—is well placed to enter government in Dublin at the next election, but his opponents have a potent weapon to use against him: his alleged role in the disappearance of McConville. He badly needs to throw the monkey off his back, and that explains his extraordinary move in giving himself up to the police.

It is a calculated gamble. Two of those who claim he gave the order to kill McConville, Hughes and Price, are dead. (Hughes died in 2008, Price in January 2014.) And anyway, their evidence is hearsay and can’t be used to charge, much less convict, anyone.

So if Adams can hold out for the days of interrogation that lie ahead, there is a good chance he can come out of police custody, declare himself an innocent man who answered police questions truthfully, and finally throw the monkey off his back.”-Ed Moloney.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/01/sinn-fein-boss-gerry-adams-wanted-this-murder-bust.html

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EamonnCork - May 1, 2014

Does Ed Moloney really believe that? Seriously? That the McConville allegations will be defused by Adams being interrogated about them with all the resultant publicity? And that this is all a Machiavellian plot by Adams and Sinn Fein?
I’d have to say that if his thinking is on this level he’s gone down in my estimation.

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Starkadder - May 1, 2014

Yeah, it’s hard to see how Adams being interrogated
about the McConville allegations will make the
issue any less damaging to him, at least for the
moment (it’ll be different if he get exonerated).

Adams resiging from SF would throw “the monkey off the party’s back” much quicker.

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15. roddy - May 1, 2014

Has Maloney no shame.He and McIntyre persuades people to take part in Boston where they could say what they liked without repercussions.These people were so eager to try and destroy the peace process that many of them implicated themselves ,thinking wrongly that it was safe to do so.Such was their hatred of Adams for ending the conflict that they would say anything to try and damage him.Unfortunately they have been left up shit creek by 2 conmen.

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EamonnCork - May 1, 2014

Given the statement by Moloney above, which for disingenuousness is up there with Gilmore pretending he didn’t know why everyone didn’t want a water meter, I’d be inclined to agree with you Roddy. Though maybe conmen isn’t the wisest term to use.
And I think those people who’ll be keen to use this to use the ‘they’re only a pack of murderers’ stick to beat SF with in advance of the elections should bear in mind Roddy’s point that this testimony came from people whose problem with Adams was that he stopped the bombing and the shooting. And also that without the ceasefire and the agreement there would have been many more Jean McConvilles.

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shea - May 1, 2014

if its was not boston it would be something else. Mcgeough, mcadams, Corry, price, holland of the top of my head have been lifted and held on legacy charges. Get adams is to simplistic, its criminalise the struggle, same as it ever was, Adams being the face of it would be a juicy price for them alright, which even given the allegations that he ordered it, will probably have to use a membership charge if they are going down that road to make it stick, which they have all ready used on others .

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Ed - May 1, 2014

That seems to be the most likely explanation – if this is about political timing, it probably has more to do with the announcement the other day that there won’t be any inquiry into what the Paras did in Ballymurphy, and with the steady drip-drip of revelations about Finucane, the MRF etc. Theresa Villiers did say a few weeks ago that there should be more focus on paramilitary violence and less focus on state violence (and by paramilitary violence, I’m sure she meant the IRA – poking around in loyalist cupboards isn’t going to present the state in a good light).

Hard to know whether this is a solo run by PSNI officers who want to put Adams in the spotlight or has some kind of sanction from above. The man who came up with the idea of using the Boston tapes in the first place was very clear about the reasons for it:

‘“Although Brendan Hughes is now dead,” wrote Baxter in the Newsletter, “his evidence, which was recorded, may provide evidence which could lead the police to build a case for criminal proceedings.” His intense personal feelings were evident in his description of a recent appearance by Adams in a Channel 4 religious programme as “sickening” and in a suggestion that Mrs. McConville may have heard herself condemned “from the lips of a demon of death”.

‘The level of hatred – it is not too strong a word – of Baxter and many of his colleagues at the new status of individuals they had striven to extirpate from Northern Ireland society was unconcealed. “Sinn Fein and the IRA have a record of human rights abuse that would equal some Nazi units in the Second World War, and yet they currently wear the duplicitous clothes of human rights defenders with such ease.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/13/norman-baxters-long-crusade/

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shea - May 2, 2014

not a believer in different factions in the british government. i think they come up with options ABCDEF, push something as far as they can and create options left and right to jump if nesessary. Maybe some individuals will be happier with some out comes more than others but that is the height of it, if they are really not in control then that is an issue in itself. That what villers says can be lined up with police actions, find the rogue police angle a bit hard to swallow.

Baxter is a fine one alright, hope he gets to write more.

someone got arrested for mcgurks bar two days ago. out yesterday apparently. Families also anounced yesterday they are taking litigation against the psni.

If there is political motive for this week say it is to do with issues in the north alright. The establishment down here are open about wanting mary lou to take over SF, that she is the prefered leader for them, they don’t like adams, don’t think he is good for a party that keeps growing under his leadership, but do they have the balls to put adams off side, probably yes in my opinion but would the brits do it for them if they asked. English manners and all that considered, doubt it, they have their own interests doubt the staters asked, but wonder where they informed it was in the process of happening. but yeah more a case of interests collide than cross boarder favours i would think. Though it is an interesting issue in its self, Mary lou being catapulted into the leader role like this, if it happens.

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16. roddy - May 1, 2014

Perhaps if statements of former colleagues are now deemed to be enough for people to be arrested ,we will now see the statements of former RUC man John Weir come into play.In a sworn affidavit he outlined the activities of the Glenanne gang ,responsible for at least 70 killings.The gang was almost totally RUC and UDR and included supt Harry Breen of Smithwick tribunal fame.No doubt mass arrests are now imminent and Vincent ,Joe and Miriam will be suitably outraged.

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Bob Smiles - May 2, 2014

Wasn’t Harry Breen a brave man according to Gerry? You know how to avoid a mess like this? Don’t kill jean mcconville in the first place and don’t lie about it for 20 years.

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Bob Smiles - May 2, 2014

But I will say again that it will have No impact on SF’s vote in the FS

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17. roddy - May 2, 2014

Gerry may have said Breen was brave to enter South Armagh but he didn’t exonerate him from the Glenanne gang like the free state media and establishment did.

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18. CL - May 2, 2014

Meanwhile back in the world of crony capitalism…

“Structure Tone, one of the nation’s largest construction firms, pleaded guilty on Wednesday to corruption charges and agreed to forfeit $55 million for a scheme in which the company defrauded a roster of prominent financial institutions, law firms and ad agencies out of tens of millions of dollars.”

“AN EX-PAT founder of a corrupt US building firm has emerged as the main organiser of a fundraising event in New York two weeks ago which raised $375,000 for Sinn Fein, the Sunday Independent can reveal.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/corrupt-companys-link-to-sinn-fein-375000-fundraiser-26418847.htm

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19. http://www.dotacje-oze.com.pl/poszukiwanie-atrakcyjnych-form-lokowania-kapitalu/ - June 24, 2014

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is perfect.

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