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What you want to say – 30th July 2014 July 30, 2014

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Uncategorized.
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As always, following on Dr. X’s suggestion, it’s all yours, “announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose”, feel free.

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1. rockroots - July 30, 2014

Found and uploaded from an old video tape, an interview originally broadcast the early 1980s with Irish politics author Basil Chubb. My first thought was that 30 years hindsight would allow for some knowing smirks, but actually his talk about cronyism and the parish-pump, disillusionment with Labour in government and his over-generous optimism for the prospects for the radical left (the Workers Party in this case) is all depressingly familiar.

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2. CB - July 30, 2014

https://soundcloud.com/nearfm/the-irish-history-show-episode-26 Pádraig Yeates on the Irish History Show on Near FM talking about the Howth gun running and the Bachelor’s Walk massacre.

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3. Tomboktu - July 30, 2014

On a completely different track, none of my tomato plants has set flowers yet. One of them is over six-feet tall (two meters in new money). What have I been doing wrong? 😦

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Alibaba - July 30, 2014

Have you tried feeding them? If not, purchase some liquid tomato feeds (containing Phostrogen). Apply it to the base of the plant (roots) and not the leaves with watering or as indicated on the product.

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que - July 30, 2014

yeah same experience re the feeding and water the bedevil out of them. Thirsty plants

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Tomboktu - July 31, 2014

Oh, I have been feeding them with tomato feed. 😦

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

I find tomatoes unpredictable. Some seasons they want to be fruitful and multiply and some seasons not.

I do wonder how many of the seeds have been bred for very specialised max-energy, max-pesticide greenhouse conditions, however.

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Michael Carley - July 31, 2014

I get my seeds here:

http://www.realseeds.co.uk/

Generally very good, and all bred for home gardening and saving of seeds. Tomatoes are hit and miss (I grow outdoors) but yields are generally good; leeks fantastic; brassicas looking hopeful this year; Swiss chard and beetroot going great guns. Over the spuds I draw a discreet veil. Rumours of coffin ship construction are greatly exaggerated.

WBS: can we have a gardening column as well? It might be handy training for the post-apocalyptics.

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

The Weekly Communist Survivalist – sounds good!

Who knows, we might need it yet.

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Michael Carley - July 31, 2014

How long before we have a split on the relative merits of spuds versus grain as long term calorie storage?

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

Well, let’s see. Irish blog -> a couple of days, tops.

I’d like to start the betting on the first Leninist to call someone a kulak.

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Michael Carley - July 31, 2014

But allotments and working your own garden would be acceptable?

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que - August 3, 2014

Swiss chard doesnt sound very working class to me!

And allocating allotments and working your own garden was the first step Deng took in China so we see exactly where you are going Carley.

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Michael Carley - August 3, 2014

I was thinking of something more Cuban than Maoist.

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EamonnCork - August 3, 2014

Bunches of Swiss chard were actually used by anti-facist marchers against the Blackshirts at the Battle of Cable Street, something commemorated by Ewan McColl in his, “Swiss Chard it is a manly weapon O.” So now Que.

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Michael Carley - August 3, 2014

Quinoa, quinoa, the bauld Fenian men …

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Michael Carley - August 3, 2014

And while we’re on the subject, why do we retain any affection or respect for that fickle tuber? Break the connection with potatoes, the never failing source of all our evils.

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rockroots - August 3, 2014

Potatoes? Cheap unreliable American import.

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que - August 3, 2014

Eamonn,

Wrap the green chard round me boys

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FergusD - July 31, 2014

Potato blight hit the allotments last year – scary race memories. Fortunately the luck of the Irish actually applied and I was OK!

Sadly slugs and snails have wreaked devastation on my brassicas – they were doing well for a long while and then bam! Slugaggedon. I’ll have to try that Nemaslug again. Of course you could get cabbage in Lidl for 50p last season – I don’t know why I bother.

I have to say that having an allotment makes me far more sceptical about organic agriculture. I am pretty much organic but then I won’t starve if my coips fail.

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Michael Carley - July 31, 2014

It does give you a certain relationship to reality, doesn’t it?

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

Yep – when I had a garden I didn’t find it worth being too purists.

And I didn’t grow much of the cheap-to-buy vegetables like spuds and cabbage.

Try curly kale – there’s something the slugs don’t particularly like and you can leave is standing through the frost in winter.

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EamonnCork - August 2, 2014

In the same way, keeping chickens gives you a certain scepticism about the nobility of Mr. Fox, not to mention a certain irritation with people who say, “You know, Man is the only animal who kills what he doesn’t eat.” Owning cats gives the lie to that one as well come to think of it.
Curly kale is the business.

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que - August 3, 2014

Always was impressed that the curly kale stays active in the ground for years. Remembering a field ploughed at home and kale shooting up. Hadnt been kale in the field for near 12 years.

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yourcousin - August 3, 2014

I must confess that it is nice to a domestic side of the CLR.

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WorldbyStorm - August 3, 2014

I’m seriously wondering should we have a Left Gardeners Corner post every week? It’d be useful to exchange ideas, I’m mad about fuchsia as it happens.

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EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

I have a heap of chard here. Any suggestions on the best way to cook it?

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Michael Carley - July 31, 2014

Stalks: simmer gently until tender, drain, layer with butter and Parmesan, top with same, in oven for 15 minutes until the top is nicely browned.

Leaves: wash and throw in a pot with just the water that’s on the leaves, cover and cook for about 15 minutes, cool and serve as a salad leaf with a squeeze of lemon juice.

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

Now you’re talking. Suddenly I’m hungry!

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FergusD - July 31, 2014

I eat it with pasta. Spagetti or penne, whatever. Get some of those salty anchovies in olive oil and cook then in a pan in the oil they come in, add some garlic and a few flakes of dried chilli. Cook until the anchovies have “dissolved”, maybe add a few small tomatoes and cook them. Finally chuck in the chard torn up, stalks and all (although not to thick)and cook just to wilt it so it is nice and green. Plenty of pepper then mix it up with your cooked pasta.

You can microwave the chard with a little water in advance, not too much, it helps reduce the volume.

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EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

Thanks lads. I’m gone very Michael Pollan the last while.

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Michael Carley - July 31, 2014

As I pick the blighty bits out of the spuds, I think of little else.

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Joe - August 2, 2014

That rain last night and this morning in Dublin. Very good for the beetroots I have in my ma’s garden. Worried too about my brassicas. Specifically I planted a load of brussels sprouts seeing as they did well for me two years ago. Most did well but I notice something, slugs or maggots, have gotten at the middle of the strong plants. No sign of sprouts yet either. Soon, hopefully.

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workers republicu - August 3, 2014

Yea, you’re right there, my Moneymaker or still green, while my Ailsa Craig are ripe and delicious. My cherry tom, Gardener’s Delight are excellent.
One import point with is not to let them grow too big, no more than 3 tresses high.I hadn’t time, with somany campaigns;, to grow much veg this year, but I have a bumper crop of apples. Black, red currents and Blueberries.

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Michael Carley - August 3, 2014

How many feckers on this site are growing things and never said?

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Alibaba - August 3, 2014

Yeah, Moneymaker seeds always works for me – auld brown fingers! I bought some plants in Ldl this year and they are doing poorly despite all the attention I gave to them.

I can’t figure out how to get Blueberries to fruit, even though I put them in ericaceous soil. Any suggestions would be welcome.

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4. Starkadder - July 31, 2014
5. Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

Headline: “US condemns shelling of UN school in Gaza but restocks Israeli ammunition.”

Says it all really.

Meanwhile the left / pro-Palestinian groups in Berlin are earnestly trying to see if they can find enough common ground to stage a (small) common demo. Which also says a lot.

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workers republicu - July 31, 2014

Great marches in Cobh an Cork Saturday last . All left , Republicans (all shades ) Unions and unalighned people of all ages attended. Well reported in local papers.
Lie down on giant Palestinian flag outside Marks &Spencer’s (stockists of Israeli products) very effective.
Another march this Saturday
F
Fund raiser for MAP ( Medical Aid for Palestine) tonight in Spailpin @ 8,30.
On the way to it.
US re-supplying Israeli terror army.they share in the War Crimes.

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6. Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

I can hardly bring myself to write of Israel’s ‘war aims’, given what they are currently inflicting on the civilians of Gaza.

However, there appears to be mission-creep from tunnel destruction to ‘demilitarisation‘.

How can that happen without occupation? When I saw maps of the so-called ‘buffer zone’ I began to suspect that an invasion of at least part of the territory was being planned.

Another depressing factor are the polls in Israel. It seems that the anti-war population has shrunk to 3% or so.

A long sanctions and disinvestment campaign has to be part of the solution.

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WorldbyStorm - July 31, 2014

I’ve been thinking much the same , particularly re yet further invasion into what is ever increasingly nominal Palestinian territory.

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EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

It’s becoming increasingly like Sharon’s invasion of Lebanon.

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FergusD - July 31, 2014

I look at maps of Gaza, the most densley populate dplace on earth already, and how the people near teh “border” with Israel have been told to leave, reducing the area still more then add in the blockade (the Israel military have decided how many calories a day the Gazans are allowed) and you think “ghetto”. It’s the comparison that dare not speak its name.

BTW, yesterday (I think) an article on Gaza on the BBC WWW site had, underneath a photo of grieving Palestiniians, about 6 pictures of the Israeli army, soldiers sleeping on the ground, tank with empty shells, soldier saying prayer etc, all from Reuters with that sunset glow in teh background. IDF porn. What had that to do with serious reportage? I found it truly shocking when some may civilians were killed that day.

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

You should try living with the meeja coverage in Germany, Fergal.

Sometimes they hardly bother to delete the ‘IDF PR Department’ headers from the reprints.

The IDF reckon their winning the Farcebook war. I don’t know if that’s true, but if so, they’re welcome to it.

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7. Pasionario - July 31, 2014

I watched Comrades, Bill Douglas’s film about the Tolpuddle Martyrs last night. It’s that rare thing: a political work of art. Reminds me of Eisenstein at his best. Makes most of Ken Loach look like Brookside by comparison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comrades_(film)

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EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

Plus 1. Magnificent film. The trilogy is well worth checking out too. I think Loach in his earlier days with Days of Hope for example was in the same league, and also later on around the time of Riff Raff, Raining Stones and, with reservations, Land and Freedom. However I think, and sorry to be sacrilegious about this, that he’s been in decline for a while now, perhaps because Paul McGuigan isn’t in the same league as someone like Jim Allen. Think of Jimmy’s Hal, a movie practically tailor made for the CLR. If it was any good, we’d still be discussing it. Instead it was underwhelming, almost a piece of costume drama where the issues had already been decided.
Anyway, anyone who hasn’t seen Comrades should do so. The Douglas trilogy often gets mentioned in tandem with these which are little miracles too.

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EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

Paul Laverty. Paul McGuigan was one of the lads in Oasis. Late night.

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8. Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

Post-democracy section…

Does anyone know whether this was a jury trial?

I’m assuming it was the Supreme Court (appointed by the corrupt creatures in the Greek cabinet), if the next step is the ECHR.

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9. Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

The “most moral army in the world”:

Record of a shooting

Watchtower
‘It’s a little girl. She’s running defensively eastward’

Operations room
‘Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?’

Watchtower
‘A girl of about 10, she’s behind the embankment, scared to death’

Captain R (after killing the girl)
‘Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed’

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FergusD - July 31, 2014

Is that for real? Can it be verified? If so teh ghetto comparison gets even more appropriate.

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Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014
Gewerkschaftler - July 31, 2014

Sorry Fergus.

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10. Alibaba - July 31, 2014

I’ve just noticed that former MEP Paul Murphy SP will stand in the upcoming Dublin South West by-election. Fair dues to him.

“If the AAA wins a seat in this by-election, as we believe we can, a powerful message of resistance will be sent. A message that we will resist the imposition of the bailout water tax, we refuse to pay for the debts of the bondholders and that we demand a real recovery for working people – which means pay rises, the provision of decent housing and public services.”

Murphy continues:

“It will further undermine this hated government and lay the basis for building a new movement to represent working people and fighting for a socialist alternative.”

At least he openly mentions the shush word ‘socialist’. However whether the building a new movement to represent working people can happen with a victory will be greeted with some skepticism. Where did we hear that before? Still nothing ventured …

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workers republicu - July 31, 2014

Re.Paul Murphy’s statement.
Why a ” new movement”? There are campaigns against water privatisation;/meetering,against the TTIP, against paying the vulture capitalists. Against eviction.Against the massacre of civilians in Gaza,supporting the boycott, divestment and sanctions BDS campaign against the Israeli military machine. We have a movement, but we need more hand on deck, more activism. Could Paul mean more members and votes, and more papers sold? I haven’t seen them very active in the campaigns ongoing.

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Mark P - August 1, 2014

I’m not sure if the marrow deep cynicism or the flagrant dishonesty is the more entertaining part of this comment.

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que - August 3, 2014

Its just what they call for. A new movement has been in the offing for years.

All those campaigns are different strands though so I wouldnt think it right to regard them as one block.

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11. Brian Hanley - July 31, 2014

What’s the feeling on The Phoenix front cover on Gaza?

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EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

Stupid.

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Brian Hanley - July 31, 2014

Yeah, playacting. Not toy Bolshevism of course, oh no.

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Mark P - August 1, 2014

Stupid, offensive and counterproductive.

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Starkadder - August 1, 2014

Much as I dislike Netanyahu and the IDF, that “gas”
cover is stupid and offensive. The last time
“Phoenix” was funny, the Squire was still running
the country.

Isn’t it high time “Phoenix” magazine was brought under
some serious scrutiny? We could start with its “Hot Air
Brigade” section, which seems to exist soley to
slag off people the magazine dislikes. Or its
fawning attitude to Sinn Fein, which emerged with
its attacks on anyone who took issue with the party
over the Liam Adams affair.

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Mark P - August 1, 2014

Phoenix serves a useful purpose, but that purpose is independent of its editorial line, which can be summed up as APRN written in crayon.

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RosencrantzisDead - August 1, 2014

Cover was risible. What are they at?

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Liberius - August 1, 2014

I stopped buying the phoenix a good while back, partly because I was spending too much but mostly because I found the content rather thin considering the price they ask. There are better things I can do with €2.65 than read nauseating tributes to the majesty of SF, it’s up its own arse. It’s also got the comedic edge of a meeting of the national indecisiveness society*, which sort of defeats the propose of a satirical magazine.

* Points for anyone who understands that reference.

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Starkadder - August 1, 2014

“national indecisiveness society*”.

Isn’t that from the Beeb Radio comedy “Undone”?

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Liberius - August 1, 2014

Well done there Starkadder, I didn’t think anyone would get that.

For anyone who is unaware of Undone, it’s a comedy series set in London and a multiverse full of ‘wierd’ Londons. The second series is getting a repeat on BBC Radio 4 Extra starting on the 9th of August.

http://www.comedy.co.uk/guide/radio/undone/

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12. EamonnCork - July 31, 2014

Looking for an opinion. Has anyone read Forging Democracy, a history of the European Left from 1850-2000 by an English academic Geoff Eley who teaches in the US? The idea of a narrative history on the subject tickles my fancy but reviews are few and far between on the web. And are there any other narrative histories on the subject, apart from that enormous socialism in the 20th century one which always gives me a hernia when I move house and which I’ll probably never summon up the will to read.

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Pasionario - August 3, 2014

I read Eley’s book when it came out. It’s not bad. The basis thesis is contained in the title — that the struggle to advance democracy has been the basic contribution of the Left since the mid-19th century and that socialism itself can be seen in that light. Shades of Tony Benn there.

But I found that there was a surfeit of optimism at the end of the book — something, if memory serves, about how alliances between rejigged social democratic parties, Greens, and some more leftish types would be the future (along the lines of the “plural left” in France — look how that turned out). There was a moment at the end of the Nineties, before 9/11 and Iraq obviously, when pro-European social liberals briefly seemed to be conquering all before them — Blair, Schroeder, Jospin, Persson, Prodi. I think Eley mistook that for a long-term trend though my recollections are a bit hazy.

Aside from Donald Sassoon’s book (whose hernia-inducing properties you allude to), I can’t think of any other general histories of the European left but Paul Foot’s The Vote is a good take on the situation in Britain from the Civil War to New Labour with some illuminating personal anecdotes about the fortunes of the Foot clan.

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EamonnCork - August 3, 2014

Pasionario, thanks very much. Greatly appreciated. To my shame I’ve never heard of the Foot book, must look it up.

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13. Mark P - August 1, 2014

It was three weeks ago now, and I forgot to post about it at the time, but I thought the turnout at ROSA’s Bread and Roses Festival was very encouraging. I wasn’t at it, so can’t give a report but I’m told it was full throughout the two days, and that the talk given by Meena Kandasami was a particular highlight. Maybe someone who was there can give a report?

In any case it’s a good sign when a socialist-feminist group can fill both venues at the Twisted Pepper.

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14. 6to5against - August 1, 2014

I’ve been reading Colm O Gaora’s ‘On the Run’

http://www.mercierpress.ie/irish-books/on_the_run_colm_o_gaora/

Very easy read, though I’m only in the early stages.

I found a section fascinating where he talks about a tithe that the local people around Rosmuc all paid, right into the late 1800s, to the O Malley clan. A member of the family would come around at regular intervals collecting either cash or produce, offering nothing in return.

Just goes to show that not all the oppressors were foreign.

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15. steve white - August 1, 2014

see the Collins Institute Fine Gael think-tank run by the guy who told ENda to scrap the Seanad Dr Sean Faughnan, first report,The Just Republic,Building A Citizen Focused Republic http://collinsinstitute.ie/reports/14-06-30-SF-The-Just-Republic.pdf lots of talk of the enabling state which means privitisation and reducing the safety (they do say it necessary)

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steve white - August 1, 2014
WorldbyStorm - August 2, 2014

Thanks a million steve, much appreciated though from what you say it makes gloomy reading.

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16. Tomboktu - August 2, 2014

The 40-something gay brother is over from England this weekend. He was telling me this evening that he has a 21-year-old gay colleague who recently moved house. It’s a shared arrangement, and the brother asked the young gay if his housemates were family. No, he was told, they are lgb.

All this progress is destroying my culture. 😮

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WorldbyStorm - August 2, 2014

🙂

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EamonnCork - August 2, 2014

Very good piece by Edmund White on the fight for gay marriage in the current New York Review of Books. Especially interesting to see how its opponents couldn’t really come up with any meaningful arguments against it. Which will be the same here in the referendum campaign where you’ll have a lot of nudge nudge wink wink stuff about 1. That crowd up in Dublin who think they’re great. 2. Those hipsters who think they’re cool. 3. Punishing Labour. 4. This being a distraction from the recession. 5. It being important to reflect the ‘genuine views’ on the other side. 6. What did gays ever do for the revolution. 7. I’d have voted yes but then I saw the way they were demonising the opposition. 8. Straight homophobic dog whistle stuff about children. 9. Something to do with the way the government is running the referendum. 10. Are you calling my old Uncle Tommy a bigot? In this manner perhaps a no vote might be achieved.

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Tomboktu - August 3, 2014

I saw some discussion of an analysis of a RedC poll from Feb which went behind the headline “yea” and “nay” figures to see how strong the support and opposition might be. Many in the yes group were not supportive of adoption by same-sex couples. I expect that to be made a burning issue.

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EamonnCork - August 3, 2014

That should be covered under 8. It will also be important to a section of yes voters that gays don’t get uppity and realise that this is something they’ll be granted out of the goodness of straight people’s hearts so some gratitude should be forthcoming. They’ll be easily enough detached.

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Gewerkschaftler - August 5, 2014

Well I assume the Irish referendum will go through – or is that too optimistic.

That would mean presumably that RoI-based LGBT people could also partake of the joys of separation, divorce and custody battles.

Just saying – grumpy old bollix that I am. 😦

Actually what brought it to mind is that a friend of mine is going through the first same-sex divorce that I’ve up to now encountered.

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17. Pasionario - August 3, 2014

Here’s a very brave article to publish in an Israeli newspaper (irony usually being one the first casualties in war):

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.608118#article_comments

“Hamas is a vicious terror organization? How has it been more vicious than the IDF in this war? In that it doesn’t “knock on the roof” 80 seconds before bombing a home? That it aims its rockets at civilian populations, just as the IDF does, but less effectively? That it wants to destroy Israel? How many Israelis want to destroy Gaza? Meanwhile, everyone knows who is destroying whom.”

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EamonnCork - August 3, 2014

How does that sharing newspaper articles thing work? I’ve never managed to work it out. There’s a really good article in the current New York Review by Jonathan Freedland which I think is pretty germane to the discussion.

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workers republicu - August 4, 2014

Re Blueberries,
I find well rotted pine needles and rotted bracket used as a mulch helps and keep all weeds clear.
The idea PH is supposed to be 4.5, but I never checked for it. I read of sulphuric acid been used to change the PH but I prefer organic/ biologique methods. The first and worst mistake I made with blueberries was adding farmland manure , fatal

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18. EamonnCork - August 3, 2014

I see Melvyn Bragg is doing a BBC2 documentary on Tom Paine next week. Could be interesting. And also that the station is doing s four part series on the history of science fiction entitled, “My God, it’s full of stars.”

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Michael Carley - August 3, 2014

The one on John Ball last night was very good.

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EamonnCork - August 3, 2014

Have it taped. Pity it’s only a two part series.

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19. Liberius - August 4, 2014

Here’s an interesting one for consideration. Back on the 6th of June, if people will excuse me going back a bit, Fingal County Council had its first meeting after the election. In the vote for mayor Barry Martin of PBPA votes for independent Lorna Nolan, but then on the vote for deputy mayor votes for Annette Hughes of the AAA rather than Justin Sinnott who all of Nolan’s other backers voted for. Does anyone have a view of why PBPA did that?

http://meetings.fingal.ie/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=129&MId=4149&Ver=4

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que - August 4, 2014

Tactically it seems appropriate. The choice of voting by Nolan’s other backers is moot surely.

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Liberius - August 4, 2014

You say that, but I can’t help but think that lining themselves up with the Labour defectors, Greens and an FF gene-pooler for one vote, then hoping over to a rival faction of socialists for the other seems a touch bizarre. Though maybe I’m missing something here, is Justin Sinnott that much more objectionable than Lorna Nolan?

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CMK - August 4, 2014

The more likely answer is that Barry, having joined PbP about three months before his election, is having difficulty figuring out what all this politics Business is all about (has he survived the recent SWP clear out, by the way?).

His run out in the locals, an explicit and successful, attempt to undermine the AAA ticket (based like many a FF or FG candidate on his footballing ‘prowess’) has rather cruelly flung a neophyte into some heavy local issues, which have shown him to be utterly out of his depth (cf. his embarrassing performance at a public meeting attended by hundreds in his constituency in early June).

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Jolly Red Giant - August 4, 2014

Not having any SWPers around here – tell us more about this ‘clearout’

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steve white - August 5, 2014

what footballing prowess? who is he

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CMK - August 5, 2014

JRG, just a rumour I heard from a reliable source that there was a ‘restructuring’, but have no further details.

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20. Ghandi - August 5, 2014

On a sadder note the funeral arrangements for Sean Mc Connell, ORM are as follows

http://www.funeraltimes.com/john-seanmcconnell441340987#prettyPhoto

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21. AonRud - August 5, 2014

Apparently if you’re on trial in Germany for bribery, you can bribe the courts to let you off. This has to be the daftest loophole…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28656050

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Gewerkschaftler - August 5, 2014

Classic – Formula 1 meets Bavaria.

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22. Gewerkschaftler - August 5, 2014

The Party of the European Left’s demands for a Israeli / Palestine settlement:

The absolute and irreversible lifting of the blockade on the Gaza Strip, and the opening of the crossings to goods and persons, allowing the entrance to all food as well as industrial and construction supplies.

The reestablishment of the 20 miles limit for the work of fishermen.

Freedom for farmers to move and work in all their lands, including the ones which are in the border areas, without being attacked or killed by the occupying forces.

The Rafah Crossing must be under international supervision.

The construction of an international seaport and an international airport under the control of the United Nations and neutral countries.

The release of all Palestinians political prisoners and the improvement of the conditions of the Palestinian prisoners in general.

The end of the administrative detention.

A new International Conference for the peace and the creation of a Palestinian State according to the United Nation resolutions.

The commitment by the Israeli regime of not violating Palestinian airspace, nor the maritime space, in addition of not interfering in the Palestinian Government´ and not to hinder national reconciliation.

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Alibaba - August 5, 2014

“A new International Conference for the peace and the creation of a Palestinian State according to the United Nation resolutions.”

As I understand it, this is the so-called “two-state solution”. This is a delusion with which the USA and EU seek to blight the besieged Palestinian populations.

Such a solution, even if it could be achieved, would be deeply counter-productive. Israel will never allow any Palestinian state enjoying any degree of genuine sovereignty to be formed. Some entity could be created subject to strict military, political, economic and strategic limitations; freeze the settlements and on and on it would go. And by the way the Israeli state would determine who could represent the Palestinians in any such faux peace negotiations. The terms of reference would be stitched up behind-the-scenes with UN connivance.

A two-state solution would not bring about peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples. A militarily stronger Israel would always have recourse to its own machinations with US support. The more I see in Gaza today, the more brazen and horrific it gets.

Incredibly the Fatah and Hamas haven’t closed the doors on this ‘solution’ either. Apparently, nor has much of the European Left.

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Gewerkschaftler - August 6, 2014

I take your point but…

…so what is the alternative?

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Alibaba - August 6, 2014

Revolutionary socialists would surely argue for a secular state in which Muslims, Jews and Christians could co-exist. Obviously, this would be extremely difficult to achieve.

Netanyahu has recently told Palestinians to “abandon the fantasy of flooding Israel with refugees” and be prepared to “recognise Israel as a Jewish state”. The divvy up is a possible “peace” on the basis of abandoning the right of return for the refugees driven off their land by settlers. And reactionary demands from Islamist sides would follow too, if they were fit to fight. This is the alternative scenario that I believe the reformist Left should reject.

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WorldbyStorm - August 6, 2014

If the two-state solution is a fantasy then it seems unlikely that a one state secular state is less fantastic as an achievable goal. I think that if Fatah and Hamas are still open to the former then it’s probably marginally more achievable than the latter. Much depends on what Palestinians and Israeli’s as they are or likely to be in the near to medium term will countenance. It’s depressing, but I can’t see how they would accept a single state – either side at this stage.

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Alibaba - August 6, 2014

WBS, I agree that the two state solution (or variant of it) is more achievable. This is so given the touting of the US / EU for it and the seeming preparedness of Fatah and Hamas to accept this. But you don’t get luxury goods in bargain basements.

I can’t disown my belief in the necessity of calling for a single state solution, no matter how unrealistic or improbable it seems.

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WorldbyStorm - August 7, 2014

Absolutely, and I’d imagine a lot of us would hope for a situation where borders ultimately melt away and such things become irrelevant.

All that said, I have a certain degree of sympathy for why the Palestinians might feel leery at the idea of being in a single-state after the events of the years since 1948.

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workers republicu - August 7, 2014

There’s a Palestinian proverb “to exist is to resist “, whilst some farmers and business people in the occupied areas might accept a two state solution, the dispossessed and the refugees never will .
The Israelis are arrogant in their support, Netanyaho said ” We run America”. But this could change. The Roman, the Ottoman, Imperial China, the French , Austrian-Hungarian, German and British Empires (and recently the USSR ) fell suddenly. So Will the US hegemony. The vote in the UN was not a vote in support of Israel: only the US voted against the condemnation of Israeli war crimes.

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23. doctorfive - August 5, 2014

Short film about the collaboration between Irish and Spanish pro-choice activists in London from the 1980’s until the present day.

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