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An Bord Snip… Part 1 July 16, 2009

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Economy, Irish Politics.
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Can I recommend Progressive Economy and in particular Michael Taft’s fine dissection of what the effects on the economy of these measures would be, and also Paul Sweeney’s thoughts on other impacts. It does make one wonder what the point of the exercise is.

That said, and I’m reading this a chunk at a time, some stuff struck me very forcibly…and it’s off the beaten track. The larger areas will be well, indeed better, covered by others, so here are a few choice cuts, so to speak.

Let’s look at privilege days, the source of so much contention here earlier in the Summer… mention of it comes on page 65 of Vol 2 and only in reference to the Institutes of Technology under the Education area.

Non-academic staff
(i) Terms and conditions
Non-academic staff in the IoT sector generally have more favourable conditions than their civil service counterparts as follows:
• shorter working weeks (as low as 32.5 hours);
• longer annual leave (up to 34 for Assistant Principal equivalent grades);
• with IoT’s closing for longer periods at Christmas and Easter, there are greater numbers of privilege/concession days (as well as entitlements to religious holidays in the case of some staff).
Absorption of concession days into annual leave and harmonisation of annual leave/working week with other areas of the public sector would provide greater productivity within the sector and generate savings. Entitlements to religious holidays are also considered an out-dated concession and should be abolished.

Okay. No serious quibble from me there. But that’s it. No other mention throughout the entirety of the Reports 200 plus pages.

So, what about this? Infrastructure we’re told is key to our economic development… er… no apparently not.

B.1 Reduce expenditure on roads maintenance/improvement
To a significant extent, the need for this expenditure is a function of the large level of capital investment in recent years improving and expanding the national and regional road network, and also the introduction of higher standards of road design and surfacing for road safety purposes. On the other hand, it is reasonable to hold the view that as this extensive capital investment programme has delivered a relatively new stock of roads, lower repairs should result. Accordingly, the Group
recommends a €20m (10%) reduction in expenditure on road maintenance.

Just like that! Now, does this make sense? We have more roads, but they’ll need fewer repairs. It’s a‘reasonable’ view… but what empirical evidence is there for it? They don’t say. They don’t seem to believe they have to.

Or how about?

Other measures
The Group considers that there is potential for savings from new policy directions:

• Introduction of road pricing
The Group is mindful that Government policy thus far in respect of road pricing is that it should be seriously considered at some stage but that it is more appropriate to do so once adequate public transport and road upgrades are in place. That said, the Group is strongly of the view that over the course of the next few years significant advances on transport infrastructure will have been made under Transport 21 and therefore it is appropriate now to initiate an examination of how road pricing is to be introduced.
Road pricing can have a dual purpose as a revenue raising and demand management tool and both elements should be exploited. Moreover, the introduction of pricing mechanisms should not be restricted to new infrastructure; rather a full analysis of all existing road routes (including bridges and tunnels) should be undertaken with a view to implementing a comprehensive and integrated nationwide road pricing system. The Group considers that this approach would represent a fundamental structural reform that would (a) provide a significant ongoing source of Exchequer revenues if introduced at a high enough level (b) broaden the revenue base away from the State’s income and enterprise activity and (c) promote more rational economically efficient activity by road users, including promoting the use of public transport where appropriate.

It’s a libertarian wet dream, but wait, why not pay for this out of general taxation. We are not told.

Same with…

Introduce entrance fees at cultural institutions
The Special Group considers that there is scope to raise revenue by charging entrance fees at the various national cultural institutions and the National Gallery. Even entry fees set at low levels would generate useful revenue1. The Group notes that such fees are common in continental Europe.
The Group recommends that the cultural institutions should decide the appropriate level of fees required, the opening hours and the extent of concessions to be granted for free entry. Such concessions might include free entry on particular days of the week

Let’s consider a Green Party area of interest… public transport…

Programme C – Public transport
The Department of Transport’s 2009 current expenditure allocation for Public Transport is €342m, which is primarily spent to support non-commercial bus and rail services. The Special Group is recommending total savings of €68m a year for this Programme.
The Exchequer current allocation to CIÉ for the provision of non-commercial public transport services (PSO payments) has already been reduced in 2009 by €10m (3%). This reduction is on the back of a number of years where the allocation was held level (a reduction in real terms) and also is in addition to the ending of a fuel excise rebate scheme which was worth about €20m annually to CIE. The impact of this can be seen already in the recently announced programme of cost-cutting measures by Dublin Bus and the review of operations, services and routes by Bus Eireann. The Group is of the view that this cost-cutting programme can be more extensive and recommends that over the next three years the company focuses on reducing its annual operation costs of €1bn to allow it to pass on €55m in full year savings to the Exchequer by means of reduced PSO payments.

So, reductions on top of reductions… tell us more.

C.1 Operational efficiencies among CIE companies
The Group is concerned by the overall upward trend in the level of public service payments per passenger journey although it notes that Irish Rail has achieved a small reduction (Irish Rail still has the highest PSO payment per passenger journey of the three CIÉ transport companies). This indicates poor service delivery.

Or perhaps it is indicative of the costs of running public transport, a service that is a necessity above and beyond mere headline costs (and let’s not even talk about how aviation is supported by various tax incentives particularly as regards fuel in order to make it ‘economic’).

Accordingly, the Group recommends a scheme of targeted
reductions to services across all three CIÉ companies, focused in the first instance on off-peak, low patronage services.
As part of this undertaking, the Department of Transport and CIÉ should jointly review the application of PSO payments to low patronage transport routes and explore how such payments can be best targeted/applied to provide the most economical service levels that meet customer needs and demand patterns. For example, lightly used rail lines should be closed and replacement bus services provided. It is more than likely that more regular and reliable bus services could be provided on such corridors at less cost to the Exchequer. Among the most lightly used rail lines that should be examined in this light include:

– Limerick Junction to Rosslare
– Limerick to Ballybrophy;
– Manulla Junction to Ballina.
In addition, the Group recommends that there should be no further development of the Western Rail Corridor.
Overall, the Group targets a significant reduction of costs at CIÉ which would lead to savings of €55m in the PSO payment.

Not developing the Western Rail Corridor strikes me as the sort of penny pinching of the worst sort. The implementation of that sort of infrastructural link would in and of itself assist increased development. And further cuts to our already rather skeletal railway system seem to me to be perverse given both the reconsideration of a similar process in the UK and the need to shift from the roads… ah, yes, shifting from roads…

C.2. Cease funding the Rural Transport Programme
Given the availability of private sector bus alternatives, the high level of car ownership and the underutilisation of synergies with other publicly funded local transport services support the view that the level of direct Exchequer assistance can and should be eliminated, particularly in light of
current budgetary circumstances this programme should be ended.

King Car, indeed.

C.3. Discontinue the Green Schools Initiative
The Group is of the view that community-based initiatives such as the Green Schools Initiative (GSI), which aims to facilitate children walking to and from school, are best handled at local level and that such a level of direct Exchequer financial support is unnecessary. There is likely to be a significant overlap in State funding between this and closely related initiatives in other areas (Education, Health, Local Authorities and voluntary schemes).
The State does not need a special Programme of €10m over five years to convince school children and their parents to walk to and from school rather than drive. There must be alternative, cheaper ways to achieve the outcome sought from this initiative, which ultimately relies on community spirit and organisation.

No doubt there must, but the Report doesn’t tell us what they might be. And I wonder, I think the state probably does have to put some of its societal weight behind this initiative.

Anyhow, how to square this:

Speaking this afternoon, UCD economist Dr Colm McCarthy, who produced the report, said he believed the jobs cuts were “feasible” but was not sure how they would be achieved.

“We tried to identify areas where it is possible to reduce numbers,” he said.

…with this?

Dr McCarthy said the reduction in jobs could be achieved without compulsory redundancies, stating that a recruitment embargo, retirements and an existing voluntary redundancy scheme could be used to achieve savings.

I think I tend to the first Dr. McCarthy’s view. I can’t see how certain proposals could be achieved without forced redundacies, particularly in the education (amalgamation of the DIT with the IoTs) and health.

But then I hold no hope that there won’t be considerable impacts on the service given to the public by the implementation of this Report’s recommendations…

Delivering a public service numbers policy
The Government has already factored aggregate full-year savings of €300m into its budgetary arithmetic from the above initiatives. The total surplus staff numbers identified by the Special Group would involve, if fully implemented, payroll savings of up to €700 million in a full year, over and above the €300m annual savings already envisaged (and not taking into account the savings in accrued pension costs). To manage the delivery of these reductions, the Group recommends that a uniform Public Service Numbers Policy should now be put in place and implemented centrally by the Department of Finance. Such a policy should provide for the capping and progressive lowering of numbers in particular Ministerial Vote Groups / sectoral areas, with demanding targets for annual reductions and effective staff redeployment mechanisms to minimise public service impacts. Crucially, staff reductions will need to be matched with re-design and streamlining of organisations, and this will require a proactive approach by public service managers. Many of the proposals in this Report, including the scope for outsourcing of services and processes, will be relevant in this regard.

Great. Just great.

Comments»

1. Dr. X - July 16, 2009

After reading the bit about road pricing, my immediate reaction is that they laced their heady brew with a few truly demented proposals in order to make it easier to slip their more obnoxious but less implausible ideas in under the radar.

Picture this as an FF campaign theme two years hence: ‘we protected the Irish people from the worst excesses of An Bord Snip’. . .

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2. Betty - July 16, 2009

The Group is mindful that Government policy thus far in respect of road pricing is that it should be seriously considered at some stage but that it is more appropriate to do so once adequate public transport and road upgrades are in place.

Unbelievable that they have the balls to write this and then in the next breath recommend slashing public transport, rural transport and road funding… sure everyone has a car these days, don’t they?

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3. Gypsy - July 16, 2009

Probably a bit petty but does anybody know how much McCarthy would have been paid to be chair of this committee and whether he charged less for his services than he might have at any time in the past couple of years?

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4. Paddy Matthews - July 16, 2009

At present, there are 659 schools with fewer than 50 pupils, an average of 2.4 teachers per school and an average pupil teacher ratio (PTR) of 13.1:1.

If these schools were amalgamated with other schools so that the average PTR increased to that applicable in the next category of school size (50-100 pupils), i.e. 16.2:1, this would save about 300 teachers, or about €18m per annum in salary costs.

Further mergers of the existing 851 schools in the 50-100 pupil category, to achieve the average PTR applicable to schools with 100-200 pupils (i.e. 17.1:1) would facilitate a reduction of a further 200 teachers, saving another €9m annually.

Such a consolidation of schools would also give rise to savings in other support staff such as caretakers, secretarial (sic) etc., while running costs such as maintenance, insurance and heating should also be reduced.

One wonders where all these extra students from the abolished schools are going to be physically accommodated.

Perhaps the Green Party could launch a hedge-planting campaign now.

There is also scope to charge some limited fee for special needs school transport.

About 8,000 such pupils avail of free school transport services, at an average cost of €6,000 per annum per pupil, which reflects the widespread use of taxi services.

This represents a total cost of about €48m per annum on the basis of a 42-week school year. In addition to this transport cost, many special needs students may need help embarking on and disembarking from the bus and may need help during the journey.

The Department currently pays for escorts to accompany children in such circumstances, which costs a further €15m per annum.

The Group does not propose that such special needs students should be charged 50% of the full economic cost of providing the service, but the same charge in money terms as that recommended for other pupils could be applied, which could yield up to €4m a year.

Jesus, they’re real bleeding-hearts, aren’t they?

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5. WorldbyStorm - July 16, 2009

Dr. X. That makes sense. It provides the govt. with cover. Result.

Betty, I missed that. It’s disgraceful. There’s a sort of ignorant bull-headed tone running through the document.

Gypsy, I was just thinking about how, given the ideas on raising retirment age whether the good Dr. is anywhere close himself to it and whether the terms of this will affect him in the slightest.

That’s abysmal Paddy. Truly abysmal.

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6. Paddy Matthews - July 16, 2009

There’s a lot more stuff where that came from, such as clobbering anyone who is below the current medical card threshold but above the (reduced) jobseeker’s allowance level with full charges for schoolbooks, school transport, etc.

Two sections of society that will be badly affected will be the less well-off and people living in the more isolated rural areas (cuts in agricultural payments, closure of small schools, removal of rural transport – and symbolically, even the outright abolition of four of the smaller counties).

Those are two sections of society that voted heavily against Lisbon 1, and I expect that Lisbon 2 is now toast. The main selling point for it would be that it will provide somewhere for our children to emigrate to.

Politically, I don’t know if it matters whether FF play good-cop, bad-cop with this or not.

The proposals are going to stick to them, just as the medical cards fiasco stuck to them even among voters who weren’t affected directly by it. John Bruton never really lived down VAT on children’s shoes, after all.

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7. WorldbyStorm - July 16, 2009

Got to say, I think you might be right about Lisbon II. Perhaps not toast, but… this has to be a serious dent in the side of the Yes campaign.

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8. Gypsy - July 16, 2009

Trying to find a bio for Colm McCarthy to get his age I came across this from the IT:
Some express doubts about the appointment. “He was absolutely the man for the job in 1987, but it’s like what they say about the mini-skirt: if you wore it when it was first in fashion, you probably shouldn’t wear it when it comes around again. It’s hard to see how he can do the same trick twice with a different set of people, especially with a government that is too inexperienced to let him do his job.”

I see he also addressed the Green Party conference in March so I suppose he was probably softening them up.

BTW I couldn’t find his age.

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9. Paddy Matthews - July 16, 2009

Well, we’ll have IBEC – who are demanding quick implementation of all of the report – telling us why Lisbon is such a good idea. Any half-competent No campaigner should be able to cobble together something out of that.

Personally, I was a not-especially enthusiastic Yes voter last time. I’ll almost certainly vote No in October.

Our economic prospects might well be damaged by a No. But our long-term economic prospects are being destroyed anyway by a continuation of this government and this set of policies.

And I say that as someone who considers themselves centrist rather than left-wing.

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10. Paddy Matthews - July 16, 2009

Incidentally, there’s a scathing profile of McCarthy in this week’s Phoenix.

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11. WorldbyStorm - July 16, 2009

Odd that, Gypsy. He’s a man past middling years if one is to take the photo on the IT at face value.

That’s very interesting Paddy, I was a somewhat less reluctant Yes last time. I’m probably still there, but… in a context where everything is being destroyed, as you say, there’s a huge temptation in voting No to give a black eye to the great and good. And if I’m feeling that way I’ll bet there’s a fair few more than me…

Sorry, responding as I type, I have that issue in my bag. I’ll go check it…

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12. CMK - July 16, 2009

Does any else find the term “An Bord Snip Nua” grating? It conjures up, for me at least, a chummy, sort of harmless, Carry On kind of outfit. When, as we now know, it’s a cancer…

I mean we’ll have nearly 500,000 on the dole by year’s end, and they want to add another 17,000?

And they seem to forget to mention that functions outsourced to the private sector – the centralised payment agency for teachers, for examples – will still have to be paid for by exchequer funds.

They doesn’t seem to be able, probably don’t care, to quantify the cost of the suggested cuts which will undoubtedly eat in the 5.2bn savings.

Dismal days….

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13. WorldbyStorm - July 16, 2009

Couldn’t agree more CMK. And your point re outsourced services is very pertinent. Of course they believe that it will be cheaper if outsourced. And perhaps they’re correct, but I tend to find that cheaper is far from better in such matters.

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14. Garibaldy - July 16, 2009

Was anybody just watching Prime Time and the news? Disturbed by McCarthy’s hint that there were a lot more cuts that could come. The tired right wing nonsense being spewed by the economist and the attack on his own sector should be surprising but it wasn’t. The scale of the cuts proposed is shocking. But at the same time extremely petty.

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15. CMK - July 16, 2009

Yes, I caught Prime Time. There’s clear enthusiasm for further cuts, beyond what McCarthy is currently proposing. Does this report signal a Miner’s Strike moment for the Right and neo-liberal elite here?

Regarding Constantin Gurdiev and his nonsense about the gap between public and private sector pay. Maybe it’s my simplemindedness but is not the best solution to this “problem” to raise, immediately, private sector salaries to alleged levels in the public sector? Problem solved, at a stroke; and hundreds of thousands of happy workers!! As a rhethorical tactic I’m surprised trade unionists don’t throw it out during debates such as tonight’s Prime Time. This issue is an example of both neuroticism of the neo-liberal mindset and the degree to which neo-liberals get to have their cake and eat it. During the “boom” there were constant warnings, and worrying, about rising pay in manufacturing and the private sector generally; no in recession the focus shifts onto the public sector; in a few years it’ll back to pay in the private sector and on, and on, and on ad nauseaum.

I agree with sentiments above – Lisbon II is now toast.

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16. Garibaldy - July 16, 2009

Interesting to see O’Connor say that partnership was always a strategy for negotiation as opposed to anything more. Definite racheting up of rhetoric and tension. Perhaps the unions will bite as well as bark.

I do suspect though that the cuts will be less than those proposed so the government can look restrained, as was mentioned above.

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17. Damian O'Broin - July 16, 2009

On the road pricing, I’m actually pleasantly surprised it’s been raised. Proper, comprehensive road pricing (for all roads) makes a lot of sense from both a congestion and environmental point of view. However, a proper carbon tax or additional fuel levy would probably be easier to implement.

That said, there are major issues with going down such a road in the absence of proper public transport provision – especially in non-urban areas.

There’s also the problem that we’re now likely to see this and other ‘green’ taxes introduced all of sudden because we need the revenue, when they should really have been brought in on a revenue neutral basis so that they’re seen as environmental measures rather than taxation ones. The result is likely to be greatly increased resistance to measures that are going to be essential if we’re to tackle climate change.

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18. WorldbyStorm - July 16, 2009

In the context of proper public transportation you’d have me at the front of the queue for road pricing in order to achieve the ends you seek, but… in this one… don’t think so. And it’s noticeable it’s seen as a revenue generating measure.

I agree. That will kill green taxes if that’s the basis they’re introduced.

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19. Fred Johnston - July 17, 2009

Can we now reasonably expect that members of Aosdána who receive the ‘cnuas’ pension will suffer a 5% cut just as their counterparts in the real world will in their dole payments? If not, why not? And why does Galway City Council, in spite of the city being considered in some camps to be almost bankrupt, still manage to afford an assistant to the City Arts Office?

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20. alastair - July 17, 2009

Regarding Constantin Gurdiev and his nonsense about the gap between public and private sector pay. Maybe it’s my simplemindedness but is not the best solution to this “problem” to raise, immediately, private sector salaries to alleged levels in the public sector? Problem solved, at a stroke; and hundreds of thousands of happy workers!! As a rhethorical tactic I’m surprised trade unionists don’t throw it out during debates such as tonight’s Prime Time. This issue is an example of both neuroticism of the neo-liberal mindset and the degree to which neo-liberals get to have their cake and eat it. During the “boom” there were constant warnings, and worrying, about rising pay in manufacturing and the private sector generally; no in recession the focus shifts onto the public sector; in a few years it’ll back to pay in the private sector and on, and on, and on ad nauseaum.

There’s no cake to eat here. The ‘nonsense’ of the salary gap between public and private sector (broken down by various criteria, including educational qualification, time on the job, age and occupation type) is as recorded, and like the man said, that gap doesn’t take account of the preferential pension deal available. The reason that bumping up everyone else’s salaries is no solution, is because we can’t afford our current salaries, let alone higher ones.

The focus has shifted to public sector salaries in this recession for the rather obvious reason that the private sector is already shedding jobs, costs, and yes, salaries, and because we can’t afford to borrow to sustain preferential salaries in the public sector.

On the primetime coverage:

I thought it interesting that Fergus Finlay felt they weren’t finding more to cut on roads expenditure.

on Lisbon II:

I don’t think the vote is going to be swayed from it’s predicted ‘yes’. The impact of whatever gets implemented from the report won’t kick in until well after the vote.

on toll roads:

When did tolling become a ‘libertarian wet dream’?

on the personal impact of the report:

It’s recommended the closure of another agency that puts bread on the table here (already lost two on the back of the previous two budgets). I still think that attempting to minimise borrowing is the only viable solution to our economic problems, and I’d rather this than blind faith in the emergence of voodoo new industries.

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21. alastair - July 17, 2009

Let’s look at privilege days, the source of so much contention here earlier in the Summer… mention of it comes on page 65 of Vol 2 and only in reference to the Institutes of Technology under the Education area.

That’s because there’s no real scope for cost savings in replacing privilege days with normal holiday allocation. There is however obvious scope for improving provision of service in doing so. They weren’t focusing on improving service, just cutting costs.

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22. WorldbyStorm - July 17, 2009

#21 Really? So they didn’t just take your proscription of cutting them outright. That would presumably ‘cut costs’ were they hugely exercised by them. But oddly they either weren’t, or they decided not to fight that fight. Strange given that this was the report about cutting costs in the PS. The ‘Snip’ bit is the dead giveaway.

re above, you’re clearly not au fait with libertarian right thoughts on road tolling.

I’m no more convinced by cuts from a €60bn budget that knock 1bn off that sum per annum and are then held up as an exemplar of monetary and fiscal rectitude than voodoo new industries.

As for personal impact, well, snap from a different direction (indeed ironically there’s a certain symmetry about our respective stances in a certain academic area). The bread on the table from one income stream looks dodgy now in the extreme over the next 18 months, whereas the main other income stream has been under threat for at least a year and may be gone by the end of this one. Not sure what that proves though either way. It no more disproves the validity of my thoughts than it proves the validity of yours. And there’s plenty more who read and contribute here who will be affected either directly or indirectly, not to mention beyond.

Ironically, though, it’s just another tiny tiny bit of bad news for the economy as expenditures from my household that would otherwise have occurred now won’t and so a very very small part of industry and business has to try to make up the slack from somewhere else.

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23. alastair - July 17, 2009

So they didn’t just take your proscription of cutting them outright.

That would be the proscription I didn’t make. I’m opposed to them on the basis that they shut down services – a point I repeatedly made, but you refuse to acknowledge.

you’re clearly not au fait with libertarian right thoughts on road tolling.

Hmm. http://thewhitedsepulchre.blogspot.com/2009/07/libertarian-party-of-texas-and-toll.html

Comment edited not due to a violation of moderation policy but to preserve anonymity.

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24. EWI - July 17, 2009

I know that it’s the least of people’s worries fro the cuts here (and where is the sale of those shiny so-called ‘military’ helicopters, as well as the Government jets?) but chopping off two-thirds of what’s left of the FCÁ just to save a couple of million seems rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Generations and countless thousands of young citizens of our State have received an outlet for their energies at a formative age in the reserve, and it seems that the accountants are back to finish off the job they started with PwC in running the organisation down.

And I’d be very interested to find out how that 5.6 million is composed. Back in years of old when I was in it, nearly the entirety of the FCÁ’s costs were composed of the regular army training component. And, back to the glorified air-taxi service (24% of Air Corp flying time, according to the report); better to sell the helos and jets, and put the money into the Naval Service (which in our case is actually a coastguard, and very useful indeed to us in this role).

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25. CMK - July 17, 2009

EWI, regarding the defence forces and helicopters. I always thought it bitterly ironic and emblematic of “Celtic Tiger” Ireland that we could boast of the highest level of private helicopter ownership in Europe, maybe even the world. Yet when we send peacekeepers to Liberia and Chad we’re reliant on hired helicopters from Russia, Pakistan, India (none of them rich countries) to transport our soldiers. I remember seeing a picture of Irish troops being transported in a Soviet era chopper in Liberia and they all looked nervous, to say the least.

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26. Dr. X - July 17, 2009

>>>Does any else find the term “An Bord Snip Nua” grating? It conjures up, for me at least, a chummy, sort of harmless, Carry On kind of outfit. When, as we now know, it’s a cancer…

Let’s rename it the ‘Department of False Economies’; who knows, it might even gain some traction beyond this wee board. . .

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27. EamonnCork - July 17, 2009

The comment concerning the government jet caught my eye. There is something powerful and telling in the juxtaposition of the rickety mini buses of the rural transport service, which we apparently can’t afford, and the jet and the helicopters, which apparently we can. Perhaps this is largely symbolic but at a time when people are being exhorted to take it on the chin for the love of the nation symbolism is important too. Rural transport, limited and all as it was, did wonders for a lot of isolated old people. As it is, living in the country, you still meet old bachelors thumbing the roads into town.
Perhaps this is childish on my part but I share WBS’s feelings about possibly voting no to Lisbon. I voted yes the first time yet have a great desire to give the political establishment which expects people to swallow this medicine a bloody nose, not least because the inevitable referendum victory will be hailed as a triumph for the strong government and difficult choices of the Two Brians.

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28. Socialism or Barbarism! - July 17, 2009
29. WorldbyStorm - July 17, 2009

Re alastair #21 Libertarians do like toll roads, just they start to quibble once they’re introduced… it’s a matter of ownership, so they say, but given that in our state tolling is carried out by private companies, or companies in partnership with the state I wonder what their attitude would be…

http://mises.org/story/2854

So they didn’t just take your proscription of cutting them outright.

That would be the proscription I didn’t make. I’m opposed to them on the basis that they shut down services – a point I repeatedly made, but you refuse to acknowledge.

You are a caution. What do the following statements of yours do other than point at directly cutting them outright. The issue as to ‘why’ you oppose them is a different matter entirely.

The Irish Times is worried about Public Sector ‘reform’. Again. And.. firstly, secondly, thirdly… Michael Casey writes about the economy.

19. alastair – May 27, 2009

What you want, and what you can afford might well be very different things. Reform of patently ridiculous custom and practise like ‘privilege days’ might be a small thing, but it’s retention makes no sense whatsoever – let’s hear where you would propose cost savings in the PS – or is your position that no savings can be made (or are needed)?

26. alastair – May 28, 2009

I’m calling for a removal of the privilege days because they have no validity in fact, are clearly a perk if some within the civil service get them and others don’t (and let’s be clear – not all who get them would otherwise be on the statutory 20 days). The holidays applicable in the private sector have nothing to do with the validity or otherwise of the retention of dubious custom and practise in the public sector.

The issue to hand is public service reform – if the kneejerk response to any suggestions for areas of obvious reform in the PS is to cry about what’s happening in the private sector, then we’re on a hiding to nothing.

I’d ask again: let’s hear where you would propose cost savings in the PS – or is your position that no savings can be made (or are needed)?

Etcetera

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30. WorldbyStorm - July 17, 2009

Dr. X, completely agree. It’s a dismal term, and I’ve switched over to the McCarthy Report. That’s not much better really 😦

EC, it is hard to stomach all this, even if one accepts it is very slightly independent of the government (Although reading the composition of the Group I was less and less impressed. There’s no sense, as even the IT editorial admitted today, of a ‘social’ aspect to these cuts…).

How this plays more generally will be most interesting to see.

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31. EamonnCork - July 17, 2009

Re the term, “An Bord Snip Nua,” my mother asked me, in all seriousness, why the government had given it such a silly name. I do think the usage has been promoted in an attempt to give the report a more friendly mien. An Bord Slash would be more like it.
As regards how this plays, I was intrigued to see the forthright response of the farmers in Ballineen, a few miles over the road from me, to the visit of Agriculture Minister Brendan Smith. If people in one of the traditionally most conservative constituencies in the country are denting cars and knocking guards in response to a cutback in the REPS scheme it doesn’t bode well for the government. The most ardent conspiracy theorist in the world won’t be able to portray what happened in Ballineen as being organised by the Provos, the SWP or whatever other sinister body of outside agitators you’re having yourself.
The report has no standing in terms of neutrality whatsoever. Where is the input from trade unionists or ordinary workers or indeed anyone who might have any dealings with the people on social welfare who’ll be hit by these recommendations. It’s a bit like asking a group of foxes what they’d recommend for the future administration of the henhouse.

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32. WorldbyStorm - July 17, 2009

Paddy Matthews who comments round these parts on occasion made what I thought was a very sensible point quite like yours EC. He argues that the response in rural areas is sheer poison for FF (and doesn’t it demonstrate just how limited a sense of the ‘public sector’ and its interactions with the society are? I was told today by someone who would be close to a governing party that there weren’t that many PS employees in the state. Sure. But the interface between them, their families, their relatives, those who use PS services including farmers! is huge…). Add that to your point, and x number of disgruntled PS workers and families, and I think this government and more broadly this approach to the economic situation may well be reaching a serious juncture. What I keep hearing from people I wouldn’t expect to is the contrast between 5.3 bn cuts and the 6 bn for the banks… no questions asked. Populist? Sure. But not without a certain explicatory power.

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33. alastair - July 17, 2009

You are a caution. What do the following statements of yours do other than point at directly cutting them outright.

I’m in favour of getting rid of them alright – I’ve never said otherwise. What I didn’t say is that I’m in favour of cutting holiday allocation – which is presumably the the only route to a cost saving in relation to them. My point is that they work against best service, and that despite this public servants have voted for their retention when offered ‘normal’ rostered holiday days as an alternative.

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34. alastair - July 17, 2009

I do think the usage has been promoted in an attempt to give the report a more friendly mien.

Um yeah. The name is really going to disguise the contents.

How devious. The media is combined in a conspiracy to blind us to the impact of cutbacks by the use of a semi-cute nickname.

And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for you meddling kids!

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EamonnCork - July 18, 2009

Sheer comedic genius. You can’t hide your real identity behind that nom de plume, Oscar Wilde.

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35. Marion Grimes - July 17, 2009

Whatever about An Bord Snip. There is a Property Services Regulation Bill 2009 coming down the line. This will create an ‘Authority’ that will oversee complaints about estate agents / property management companies. The ‘Authority’ will be under the aegis of the Dept. of Justice ; whereas the PRTB is only under Dept. of the Environment.
So ; ‘Justice’ for estate agents / landlords.
‘Environment’ for tenants.
As also, there may be some cauterisation of access to new estate agent licences, the extant estate agents’ situation is strengthened.
With ‘Lisbon’ about to be media debated ; this Property Bill may come in, under the radar.

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36. EWI - July 17, 2009

What I keep hearing from people I wouldn’t expect to is the contrast between 5.3 bn cuts and the 6 bn for the banks… no questions asked. Populist? Sure. But not without a certain explicatory power.

You know, that very thing struck me about the RTÉ/Sunday Independent exit poll at the locals – when people were asked as to why they voted against the government, anger at the banks very suspiciously wasn’t one of the allowed options (at least going by the graphic on RTÉ showing responses).

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37. EWI - July 17, 2009

EamonnCork – you’re behind the time, I’m afraid. There have been not one but two government jets for a number of years now (and who can forget Bertie’s valiant attempt – with the aid of leaked accounts to the newspapers of near disasters with the old ones – to add a new and larger one not so long ago?).

CMK – the supposedly ‘military’ helicopters which Martin Cullen and Co. love so to ride in so much are anything but. Hence, they can’t actually be deployed on military missions (and therefore the spectacle of spending a fortune on these things and then having to hire in old Warsaw Pact helos for Chad).

It has to be pretty galling for the Defence Forces. A fortune (at least in terms of the PDF’s limited budget) has been spent on fixing up “de Brugha” to serve the Army’s needs in the 21st century, and now the beancounters want to sell it off (and where will the units go?). It’s like Spike Island in the Eighties all over again.

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38. Proposition Joe - July 17, 2009

@CMK

“Maybe it’s my simplemindedness”

Yes, that’s exactly what it is.

“but is not the best solution to this “problem” to raise, immediately, private sector salaries to alleged levels in the public sector?”

What mechanism did you have in mind for raising private sector salaries “at a stroke”?

There’s a slight practical difficulty with forcing private companies on the verge of bankruptcy to increase their costs significantly.

Unless you were thinking that the state would fund the difference? Maybe by diverting some of the education, health or social welfare budgets?

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39. WorldbyStorm - July 18, 2009

Sorry alastair, don’t buy your explanation. In every answer on that thread you clearly indicated you wanted those days dropped. And that was, as you argued at the time a cost saving, why bother asking others where we’d find ‘cost savings’. Otherwise you wasted both my time, cmk’s time, smiffy’s time, and indeed, your own.

EWI, I think that that is, well, not deliberate, but a sign of what the current consensus is.

Proposition Joe, courtesy a chara.

MG, interesting. Definitely worth watching.

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40. alastair - July 18, 2009

Sorry alastair, don’t buy your explanation.

I’m not selling one. All I can do is repeat what I’ve already said. You make whatever assumptions you choose.

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41. Proposition Joe - July 18, 2009

@WorldByStorm

Apologies if my post seemed discourteous, but really it was an entirely unworkable suggestion from CMK.

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42. EamonnCork - July 18, 2009

And apologies if this seems discourteous but I’m avoiding threads where Alastair has posted from now on. They’re a bit too much of the “You are an eejit Limerick 74, Who spilt the whiskey that time in Toomevara, who???!!!**,” variety for my liking. “I’m not selling one.” In the name of God, man.

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43. Villan - July 18, 2009

On the closure of railway lines & the WRC, the subvention required to operate these lines are enormous but are poorly patronised. Subventions to rural railways & airports are an enormous drain and deserve to be withdrawn to protect core services which are actually used and are cost effective.

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44. alastair - July 18, 2009

I’m avoiding threads where Alastair has posted from now on.

Well done on that. Alternatively you could just grow a thicker skin.

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45. Dr. X - July 18, 2009

Get a room, the pair of you.

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46. WorldbyStorm - July 18, 2009

#44 I don’t think EC comments were in direct reference to any comment you directed at him. My interpretation is that he’s talking about the tone of the discussion, which surely is fair enough?

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47. Eamonn Clancy - July 18, 2009

Does Fred Johnson ever stop whinging about Aosdana? The poor man, if only he put as much effort into his writing he might make the grade.

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48. Big Yellow Taxi - July 18, 2009

“whinging ” “poor man” etc

Does pointless abuse count as discussion around here now?

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49. alastair - July 18, 2009

My interpretation is that he’s talking about the tone of the discussion, which surely is fair enough?

He can avoid whatever threads he likes – but it’s rather strange that he throws the toys out of the pram right after his post gets a (well deserved) slagging, wouldn’t you say?

I’ll stick with my thin skin interpretation.

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50. WorldbyStorm - July 18, 2009

I don’t know alastair. It was a comment, not a post, and the point of the exercise on this site is most definitely not to give people slaggings. I really think that if you want to indulge in that sort of bearpit style of discourse you’re better of at politics.ie than here.

No doubt, as almost invariably happens, you’ll disagree.

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51. alastair - July 19, 2009

the point of the exercise on this site is most definitely not to give people slaggings

It’s the post, not the poster that deserves the salagging, and I wonder if Sarah Carey would agree with you?

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52. Niall - July 19, 2009

Black is black. White is white.

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53. WorldbyStorm - July 19, 2009

Alastair, not going to engage in a tit for tat on this. I’ve pointed out the nature of the site. It’s up to all those who contribute or comment here to come to their own decision whether what they do or how they do it conforms within the overall ethos of the site. No more to be said on the matter on my part.

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54. alastair - July 19, 2009

It’s up to all those who contribute or comment here to come to their own decision whether what they do or how they do it conforms within the overall ethos of the site

Grand so. I’ve made my position clear.

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