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Dublin Central… that by-election February 6, 2009

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Irish Politics, The Left.
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So, what to think of the future of Dublin Central now that the dust settles? Well, reading the Phoenix yesterday I was surprised by the following paragraph in an article that discussed the travails of the Green Party (or rather not, since this was obviously written before the latest poll results):

All of which underlines the dilemma facing [Green Party … Patricia] McKenna, who lost her European seat last time around and who is without a council or Dáil seat. The Green leadership would rather stand George Bush than McKenna in any election and if she does stand it will have to be as an Independent. Libertas would love her as their candidate but this right-wing party is anathema to McKenna. Far left radicals around Richard Boyd-Barrett and others would also like her to stand for Europe but a more intriguing prospect would be some link-up with the group around the late Tony Gregory.

Pardon?

I’ve never heard that one before.

It continues…

Cllr Maureen O’Sullivan is now intent on standing for this group in the by-election, whenever that happens, but an interesting notion is that O’Sullivan would stand in the local elections in her North Inner City area with McKenna standing in Cabra/Glasnevin in a loose alliance with Gregory’s people. But McKenna’s overall dilemma is that she does not know which election to stand in and for whom.

Notice a subtle shift there whereby McKenna’s ambitions are more tightly focussed on a council seat rather than Europe. That might be a more realistic assessment of her chances – and McKenna is not unaware of the fact that however detached from the Green Party her voice carries more weight within it than without. Sure, not quite a case of outside the party there is nothing. And by the by, McKenna managed to quell her thoughts on Libertas sufficiently long to dine with them in the aftermath of Lisbon.

But in any case there is already, despite some tension, an Independent candidate in the shape of Cieran Perry standing in Cabra/Glasnevin who not merely fishes in the same waters as ‘Gregory’s people’ but is in fact going to get support from some of those who would also actively support O’Sullivan. So the intrusion of McKenna, who let us note was always a political rival of Tony right up to the last election running against him (as well as all others in the constituency) makes the thesis suggested by the Phoenix somewhat difficult to accept – at least at this point in time. It’s more complex again insofar as I understand that no final decision has been taken on the shape of the future political direction of the Gregory group and a meeting in the very near future is going to thrash that matter out. The fact of that meeting makes a nonsense of the Phoenix’s confident assertion that all is already decided on these matters.

The issue of Joe Higgins standing in Dublin Central in the byelection was most likely always a non-starter. I know that this idea was mooted as early as the middle of last year but it was curious to see it publicised in the Independent last week

FORMER Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins has decided against granting the dying wish of Tony Gregory by contesting the Dublin Central by-election.

…Mr Gregory asked Mr Higgins, who was the scourge of the last Dail with his one-liner quips, to replace him in this Dail as “the people’s representative” for Dublin’s north inner city.

But Mr Higgins is running in the Dublin constituency in the European elections this June.

And as the date of those elections will likely coincide with the by-election to fill Mr Gregory’s seat he said he had reluctantly decided to concentrate on Europe.

I dislike intensely the way in which this story is phrased, it’s hand-wringing and prurient. And for what it’s I don’t think that Joe was unreasonable in deciding the way he did. As has been discussed on this thread he is very much a party man and that party – whether one supports it or not – has a clear strategic approach. How he, the SP (or whatever resources they could afford to give to the contest) and the Gregory group would work together would be intriguing to see. And consequent to that how would this have worked on the ground? Would his personality gel with the electorate in the constituency or not? Remember, Tony struggled back a few times. There was, and is, no guarantee he’d make it. Granted, perhaps one can mount an argument that it would have done no particular harm to Higgins in raising his profile, but his assessment that concentrating on Europe was a better move is probably correct. And that’s not to take into account that however close they were there were fundamental differences too between them, something that I’ve noted previously, and to his absolute credit, Joe was unafraid to mention.

But I can’t help thinking that yet again we’re seeing the same old ‘celebrity’ approach to politics in Dublin Central being played out – at least in the media, an approach that Joe Higgins cleverly has eschewed. Yet again the idea that somehow it is possible in this particular constituency that it is sufficient to have a high public profile is being tested. I’m even less sure today of how the by-election will pan out but I’m willing to bet the seat will go to someone on the ground for a good while in the area. And that might be Labour, or it might be Sinn Féin (I’m beginning to think Fianna Fáil may be out of the running).

A last thought on this matter for now… Joe Higgins makes an excellent point when he notes that:

“Because it looks like we are going to have the by-election on the same day as the local and European elections, and because I have already agreed to stand for the Socialist Party in Dublin, I would be unable to run in Central.”

Mr Higgins also said: “I do feel that by-elections here should follow the British model, where they are routinely held within a month or two of becoming vacant. Instead Irish people are left without representation so that government parties can suit themselves.”

There is something entirely disgraceful about the way in which this process remains within the gift of the government. The cynicism, masked as pragmatism, of eliding these elections is only slightly offset by the knowledge that they will more than likely provide no benefit to the major government party. Here surely is another case for electoral reform.

Now… if only we knew someone in government… someone of the left, if not necessarily in the left… who is interested in reform… who might like to take up that particular issue and run with it…

Comments»

1. Damian O'Broin - February 6, 2009

Have to completely agree with Joe Higgins there. By-elections on the UK model would be far better.

I think you’re right about FF being out of the running, and I think Labour and SF are in pole position, but, sadly, I don’t think you can rule out FG’s Pascal Donoghue sneaking in. Especially as the most likely candidates for Lab and SF – Burke, Costello, McDonald – may all have other distractions on election day. If FG can boost their numbers in Cabra/Glasnevin and pick up a few down our end of the constituency, riding the current FG wave, Donoghue could slip ahead of the Labour candidate, which might be enough.

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2. John O'Neill - February 6, 2009

The Phoenix, the magazine that never lets the truth get in the way of a good story.

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3. Tim Von Bondie - February 6, 2009

If Labour win it they won’t hold it, thats the problem, while FG might, thats the pity. Funnily enough Mary Lou might have won it now (as opposed to 2007) but has banked on Europe where she has a chance, because De Rossa may be in trouble. Burke would be unlikely to win it I think.

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4. treebm - February 6, 2009

“Now… if only we knew someone in government… someone of the left, if not necessarily in the left… who is interested in reform… who might like to take up that particular issue and run with it…”

ouch. Think there’s an announcement today or next week about spending limits. still. ouch (and rightly ouch)

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5. Dan Sullivan - February 6, 2009

The independent has some mention of this today.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-and-ahern-at-odds-over-timing-of-key-poll-1630157.html

Surely Cowen would tell Bertie to go jump? After all, who is the leader of the party?

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6. Joe - February 6, 2009

So many aspects to this one. It’s a big constituency. I’m down the Glasnevin end. There’s Cabra, East Wall, North Inner City, Glasnevin/Drumcondra – all mini-constituencies of their own.

Patricia McKenna is a red herring. She would get very few votes no matter what label she stands under or which election she runs in.
SF’s Burke I think is history too. He just wouldn’t cut it with the middle-class end of the constituency and probably would get less in the North Inner City than in his heyday.
Labour’s Mrs Costello I honestly can’t see winning it unless there’s a Spring-tide like swing.
FF little or no chance given the current bust.
FG’s Donoghue sadly for us lefties is in with a serious chance. He is a genuine bloke, works on the ground, pushes the baby around Phibsboro in the pram. That counts. His strong area would be Phibsboro, Cabra, Glasnevin. I don’t know about the rest of the constituency.
A Gregory organisation candidate has to have an outside chance. It will be very interesting to see how the imminent meeting pans out. If they stay together and unite behind a candidate and if they are willing to trade on Tony’s legacy, then independent right-thinking lefties should unite behind them.
Roll on June.

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7. Damian O'Broin - February 6, 2009

The North Inner City, at the moment anyway, is a wasteland for FG. Although, as the public turns to FG with their disctinctive, subtle, intelligent critiique of the failings of modnern neo-con capitalism – that could all change.

Donoghue would need to really clean up in the Cabra/Glasnevin end to make a go of it, and I think he’ll be there or thereabouts.

As you said, McKenna’s a red herring. But I think both Burke and Costello have a shot – If SF can mobilise the Cabra vote and the NIC vote behind a good candidate they’ve a real chance.

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8. WorldbyStorm - February 6, 2009

Damian, the more I think about it the more I’m thinking you’re right. It might just be Burke’s time… him or Labour. Knife edge stuff… Joe you may be right if the candidate is right for the Gregory organisation…

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9. Leveller on the Liffey - February 6, 2009

The danger is that – whether the north inner city is a wasteland for FG or not – O’Donohoe could take the seat simply by being ‘the candidate most likely to who isn’t Fianna Fail’.
There is (was?) a huge FF/Bertie vote in the constituency. Of course, that all depends on who the candidate is and if they are anointed by the Blessed Bertie. And will the voter backlash against the Government neutralise that anyway?
Cieran Perry is too localised in Cabra. The Labour candidate/s less than inspiring. McKenna is a beaten docket for the Dáil who would be out of the race anyway if she stands for Europe. If she stands at all (I presume as an Independent rather than an official Green), she’ll splinter the Leftie 1st count vote further.
Can’t see the Gregory camp fielding a candidate with a high enough profile and pulling power across the constituency to hold the seat. In a way, Tony was a bit of a celebrity candidate – he was well-known by virtue of his Haughey Deal/Independent/Leftie pedigree. That said, I think his vote was slipping as time goes by.
An SF win would be the most radical way to upset Cowen’s applecart if it can be pulled off.

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10. alastair - February 7, 2009

I think FG are in with a pretty good shot. Surely a lot of the Gregory vote won’t transfer to anyone? I know I’m feeling like there’s a choice between the outright unappealing and the watery.

Emer Costello isn’t my cup of tea to say the least, and presumably would be just more from the tepid Joe Costello machine. I vote for Christy Burke in the locals, and think he’s an admirable constituancy worker, but I can’t support the SF national platform and the hypocritical baggage that they bring. Mary Lou is an irritating cartpetbagger who wears her ambition on her sleeve, and pips McKenna as the worst of the worst as far as I’m concerned.

Pascal Donoghue will improve on his vote without a doubt – I think it’s his for the taking with a good wind behind him.

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11. WorldbyStorm - February 7, 2009

Could be alastair… there is a lot in what you say that the Gregory vote won’t transfer…

Leveller, not sure you’re correct that TGs vote was slipping. IIRC his last result was one of his best in terms of vote share…

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12. paddy buke - February 8, 2009

i think christy burke sf is just the man to vote for,hes worked on the ground in dublin for over 25 yrs,right in that area,a lot of his work not mentioned in the media,i wonder why?so if sinn fein want to work for the people put him forword and the people will go forward too.

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13. Eamonn - February 8, 2009

I was told about this page and just thought I would add my tuppence worth. The real outcome of this by election rests upon who is the Fianna Fail candidate. If its one of Berties cronies, they should squeeze in considering they get about 40% of the normal vote. If its Fitzpatrick,Berties gang will not turn out and they will not hold the seat. For Fine Gael to win, Donohue need a 100% increase in his vote, (3,300 last time) and I cannot see this happening. Labour look good if FF dont gel together as Labour do well in by elections. Mrs Costelloe will get a good boost from Joe (pun intended) as he wants her to replace him when he retires. AS for SF, they have not got the votes across the area to gain a seat. I think SF are in decline in general elections and a by election will be the same. As for the Gregory vote, well, thats all it is. Gregory did nothing to bring along any team of sucessors and his vote will fall to history. this election is Fianna Fails to lose and Labours to gain.

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14. Leveller on the Liffey - February 8, 2009

WBS: Tony’s 1st preference votes have been:-
1997: 5,261 (14.7%)
2002: 5,664 (16.6%)
2007: 4,649 (13.4%)

And it was, largely, a Gregory vote – the ‘Gregory Camp’ vote 2009 will be interesting to see.

Likewise the SF vote.

FGer Donohoe would have got in in 2007 if Bertie hadn’t dragged Cyprian Brady over the line (although Mary Lou was just behind the Blueshirt), and SF’s Nicky Kehoe almost upset the FF applecart in 2002 if Bertie hadn’t done the same with Dermot Fitzpatrick, Mary’s da.

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15. WorldbyStorm - February 8, 2009

Fair point re 2007 Leveller and my mistake, although not quite the precipitous drop or long drawn out decline some in the media suggested it was… to be honest Tony was worried he might be third… or even fourth in terms of 1st preferences which would have rightly sunk him.
Interesting to look also at Ahern’s vote in 2007 which swamped all around him…

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16. sonofstan - February 9, 2009

David Geary of the Greens came knocking on our door tonight “not canvassing, just saying hello……”

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17. Leveller on the Liffey - February 9, 2009

SonOfStan, do you know him?

He’s a new one on me in Dublin Central. Is he a token Green candidate?

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18. WorldbyStorm - February 9, 2009

Hmmm… candidates just drop by sonofstan… I sympathise… I really do…

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19. sonofstan - February 9, 2009

Don’t know him no….no problem with candidates dropping by at all. just interested in the timing…..

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20. Leveller on the Liffey - February 10, 2009

If Geary is the Green Party by-election candidate, that means Patricia McKenna definitely isn’t.

And if that is the case, then what are her plans, if any?

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21. Paddy O'Shea - February 11, 2009

I think the result of this by-election is down to Bertie Ahern. If he puts his considerable support behind the FF candidate I would fancy them to buck the assumed trend and take the seat. If as is most likely, Mary Fitzpatrick is the candidate Ahern’s people won’t row in behind her and without them I don’t think she will take the seat. In this case the favourite has to be Mrs. Costello. This might even suit Ahern because Labour will not hold 2 seats in the next GE. Fitzpatrick would be a 2 time loser and maybe the Ahern clan could provide the required new blood in 2012.

Another interesting scenario would be if Sinn Fein were to convince Perry to support Burke for the by-election. Looking back on his past elections Perry has a core vote of about 1,000. If SF Councillor McGratten and Perry were to back Burke in the Cabra end and Burke was to take some of the Gregory vote on top of his own in the NIC then he would be in with a serious shout. Whether Perry would do this I don’t know but I heard that he was close to SF.

I think the sad fact is that none of Gregory’s people are in with a chance of holding the seat. Even he must have realised that and explains his desperation to convince Joe Higgins to run.

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22. WorldbyStorm - February 11, 2009

Interesting Paddy (and Leveller too… I think McKenna will hold her fire for now)… but Perry supporting SF? No love lost between them IIRC. I could be wrong.

Very interesting perspective on TG’s decision to try to push JH, but the alternative is that none of them wanted it, at least not until recently…

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23. Eamonn - February 12, 2009

I heard that the Dublin Central Greens are looking for the removal of McKenna from the party. Bad feelings. The Gregory camp seem very reluctant to announce a candidate which means they are having problems. Fergus McCabe is probably the best bet for them as he is well known and respected. Uphill battle anyway. Is Burke the SF candidate? He was not too keen on general elections recently.

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24. WorldbyStorm - February 12, 2009

I heard something similar Eamonn re McKenna, but… I suspect the consensus in the party is that she’s better in than out…

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25. Paddy O'Shea - February 12, 2009

Dublin Central Greens have a motion of censure against McKenna over her statement about the party being in freefall. I think they want her out. I don’t think she would have enough support to have a chance in the by-election and she feels she is above a council seat.

I could be wrong on the Perry/SF relationship, that’s just what I heard.

On the Gregory/Higgins thing, if he felt that any of his own people would hold the seat I’m sure he would have convinced them like he convinced Maureen O’Sullivan to take the council seat. Which of them would be seriously capable of holding the seat? O’Sullivan isn’t known outside her immediate area, Rafferty couldn’t hack it as a councillor and would McCabe really want the hassle when he isn’t short of a few bob?

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26. Leveller on the Liffey - February 12, 2009

Intriguing posts, Paddy and WBS.

If it is Dublin Central trying to oust McKenna, how ungrateful because when she first stood in the locals there I think she was virtually on her own apart from David Healy. Eaten bread, etc. Turfing her out would increase her irritancy more because she’d be on every TV and radio panel as the persecuted Green Joan of Arc sniping at the Green Cabinet rump.

Fergus McCabe would be an excellent candidate for the Gregory ticket (Seánie Lambe would be another). That said, and presuming Fergus is interested), I doubt if he (any of them) would garner enough support across the constituency to hold the seat. If he had a longer run-in or if Tony had built more of a Tony Gregory Organisation profile than Tony Gregory – The Power of One, I think that would be another matter.

I think Paddy’s spot-on in that it’s all in the hands of the Blessed Bertie. Bet FG are praying FF pick Fitzpatrick. Methinks it goes to the Blueshirt unless the Left unites (formally or informally) to rally its forces.

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27. Joe - February 12, 2009

Since we’re getting a little bit into what people heard, I heard that Perry recently tried to join the Labour Party but wasn’t accepted or withdrew when faced with opposition. No idea how true that might be.

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28. Leveller on the Liffey - February 12, 2009

Paddy, the one thing I would strongly take issue with you in your last post (25) is your comment about Fergus McCabe and not being short of a few bob.

I see what Fergus does on the ground, away from the limelight, and it isn’t money that motivates him.

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29. Eamonn - February 12, 2009

Leveller on the Liffey mentions Seanie Lambe. He of the free trips to America with the Docklands Authority while the local residents were oppoosed to the DDDA corrupt practices. Seanie Lambe, don’t make me laugh.

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30. WorldbyStorm - February 12, 2009

Eamonn, I’m snipping the last part of your comment. I don’t think this is the place to be making those sort of assumptions and I think it breaches fair comment.

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31. Eamonn - February 13, 2009

Ah shucks…that was the fun bit!!

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32. WorldbyStorm - February 13, 2009

Well, y’know.

But interesting discussion nonetheless. FWIW none of those mentioned above as far as I am aware are going forward. I don’t think that’s a surprise. They might have been – as indeed they were, something I know from direct experience – hugely supportive in terms of time and energy to TG, but TG was the glue that kept the whole thing together and without his presence and dynanism I think its very difficult for them to push forward…

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33. Leveller on the Liffey - February 13, 2009

WBS: I think you’ve got it in a nutshell there and that’s the problem for the future of the ‘Gregory brand’.

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34. Eamonn - February 15, 2009

I was told at the Bob Doyle commemoration that Christy Burke will be the Sinn Fein candidate as he has agreed to go forward. It just needs to be ratified by the HQ.

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35. WorldbyStorm - February 15, 2009

I’ve a lot of time for Christy Burke… He’s trudged around enough meetings and sitting rooms for tenants and residents in his time. Don’t know if he’d win the seat but he’d do well…

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36. Eamonn - February 18, 2009

The latest news I have heard is that the shinners are looking at the new candidate in the NIC, a solicitor, to be a new and freh candidate in the by-election. Apparently, with all the shit in Tallaght about to hit the papers again, they want rid of the old guys and feel the by-election might be a good time to blood new people. Also, I heard that none of Gregory’s supporters are willing to run and the seat may go uncontested by them.

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37. Leveller on the Liffey - March 3, 2009

The “Gregory Camp’s” reported statement in yesterday’s (Monday’s) Irish Times doesn’t help the cause of unity on the left. Too aggressive and holier-than-thou for me. Totally wrong tack:

“Tony Gregory’s election agent, Maureen O’Sullivan, has announced her intention to run in the by-election in the Dublin Central constituency…

“The Gregory Group has also asked Sinn Féin and the Labour Party to ‘put their money where their mouth is’ and support Maureen O’Sullivan as the only true centre-left candidate.”

(a) There is no chance either SF or Labour now could withdraw (not that I think they would anyway) on those terms and concede that Maureen is “the only true centre-left candidate”;
(b) This will hardly endear her to SF and Labour activists.

Good line for the media; bad move on the ground.

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38. Eamonn - March 3, 2009

Sinn Fein & Labour will possibly be running candidates with a lower profile than was expected, ie…Mary Lou and Emor Costelloe are not running, so the so called centre left is wide open. Why not run o’Sullivan as the sole candidate so as to ensure victory? Why risk losing the seat to the centre right from whom it may never be regained. Gregory never made any plans for his eventual replacement and as such, has made the job of retaining the seat very hard. O’Sullivan must work with all the groups in the area to get the nod.

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39. Leveller on the Liffey - March 3, 2009

I agree with you on the last point, Eamonn (is Emer definitely not running?) but I think yesterday’s statement by the ‘Gregory Group’ basically dissing SF and Labour makes it harder than ever to persuade their people to row in behind Maureen O’Sullivan.

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40. WorldbyStorm - March 3, 2009

I’m in broad agreement with you Leveller and have a post saying as much tomorrow morning… Are you sure Emer Costelloe isn’t going forward? That’s news to me, although I’m told by one who might know that Joe was very keen to find out what was in yesterday’s statement… which incidentally is entirely understandable from his point of view.

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41. Leveller on the Liffey - March 3, 2009

WBS: Just to clarify, I don’t know about Emer not running – that’s what I was asking Eamonn as he’d suggested it but I haven’t heard it anywhere else.

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42. WorldbyStorm - March 3, 2009

Sorry, my mistake. I hadn’t heard it either. Interesting if true.

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43. Eamonn - March 4, 2009

Emer has indicated, in private conversations, that she is not planning on running. Its for personal reasons. This may change but I think the issue of two costelloes on the slate is also a factor. More importantly, I did not read the Gregory Group statement so I actually thought they had only called for a free run, basically in honour of Tony. I didn’t realise they had dissed everybody else. Great start to the campaign-not!

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44. Leveller on the Liffey - March 4, 2009

That ‘Gregory Group’ statement is according to The Irish Times.

Calling for a free run in honour of Tony would have been the most pragmatic – not to say most appropriate – option.

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45. Leveller on the Liffey - March 4, 2009

Sorry, that quote came from the RTÉ website, not The Irish Times. Apologies.

In fact, The Irish Times coverage of Maureen O’Sullivan’s press conference in the Teachers’ Club makes no mention of these belligerent alleged comments.

Strange.

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46. The Gregory Group goes forth to contest… well, which election precisely? « The Cedar Lounge Revolution - March 4, 2009

[…] 2009 Posted by WorldbyStorm in Irish Politics. trackback Got to say, I can’t disagree with Leveller on the Liffey when s/he notes the latest communication from the Gregory Group about their by-election plans. […]

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47. MN - March 5, 2009

Emer has been selected as the substitute for Proinsias deRossa – should he step down at any stage so – if she were to run in locals, bye-election and as European substitute on the same day she could face huge criticism for not knowing whether she wants to be a Councilllor, TD or MEP

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