Article on Socialist Party site … “SWP’s sectarian decision could damage..” Paul Murphys chances October 11, 2013
Posted by irishelectionliterature in The Left.trackback
We’ve already covered the issue here and here
But I thought the Socialist Party piece on their site about the SWP decision to run Brid Smith in next Years European Elections was worth a post of its own as its the first official statement from either themselves or the SWP.
Paul Murphy – campaigning to retain MEP seat for Left – But SWP’s sectarian decision could damage chances
It starts…
It has been confirmed that it is the intention that Socialist Workers Party member, Councillor Brid Smith would be a People Before Profit Alliance candidate in the European Elections next May for the Dublin constituency. When this information initially appeared a few days ago via social media, it caused bewilderment and shock.
This is an irresponsible decision and should be rescinded. It strikes a blow against the struggle to build a genuine Left and Socialist alternative by making it more complicated for Paul Murphy to retain the European Parliament seat. If proceeded with, it would rank as a crass example of political sectarianism.
and goes on from there….
The Cedar Lounge Revolution 
What a lovely response to some of my questions! 😉
Not sure I entirely agree with the logic behind some of the assertions.
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How many “left” candidates might there be? These two plus …. Patricia McKenna, SF candidate Linda Ní Bhaoighealláin?, Labour candidate???, anyone else?
Please note the inverted commas around left.
What I’m getting at – and it’s much too soon for this, but anyway – is that it could be an intriguing election. A seat for FG, a seat for SF and one more to play for. And if the SF vote is very strong, SF transfers to play for. So a strong showing by any of the other “left” candidates might get them in as well.
I’m predicting the third seat for McKenna – she’s SF friendly, if she plays it right they’ll canvass for transfers to her.
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I’d imagine Nessa Childers might stand in Dublin this time. Ex-Labour / Independent of course now.
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I was just about to say that whoever wrote that article clearly reads the Cedar Lounge.
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Political analysis based on presumed political affiliations of anonymous posters on CLR?
O…K…
That’s one way to do it!
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SF might do surprisingly bad. Candidate really not up to much, there because of the partner.
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On current poll standings SF could get Jack the Ripper elected in Dublin. As for the partner comment, I haven’t a breeze who the SF candidate is, and am entirely hostile to the lot of them, but isn’t that line of argument a bit off?
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Sorry about that. Didn’t Jack the Ripper run for them in the mid-80s?
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Don’t be bringing that old stuff up. The anti-republican media always want to use personal tragedies as a weapon against SF
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Very true, what happened in Whitechapel should stay there.
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I’m inclined to agree Pete.
Not because of a particularly bad SF candidate (or whatever it is you’re trying to get at about her partner), but because of an overstatement of the SF vote in the opinion polls and the lack of name recognition.
Others have better name recognition, including Paul Murphy, Brid Smith, Patricia McKenna, Eamon Ryan, Nessa Childers…
Might be a lot of people looking for a leftish vote…
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The success of FG and Labour in 2011 left them with a tough problem in replacing the retiring De Rossa and Mitchell.
Polls aside Emer Costello wouldn’t be a high profile candidate. As for FG for all the talk of Brian Hayes running, I just cant see him do it as he’s a young enough family. It might suit him in 10 years but not now.
If I was FG I’d try and convince Senator Eamon Coughlan to run.
SF had a similar problem in that due to the 2011 success they have no household name to stand in Dublin. I’d expect to see SF posters with their candidate pictured with Mary Lou, just as many Mary Lou 2004 posters had pictures of herself with Gerry Adams.
Name recognition is huge in Euro Elections and thats where FF have a slight advantage, the only problem for them is that any former TD will be associated with the crash.
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Shows how much you know, Pete.
Lynn Ní Bhaoighealláin is the candidate on her own merit.
And the line about being there “because of the partner” is the sort of cheap jibe Pee Flynn would be at home with.
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I’m relieved someone out me in the ‘left ‘ category. Most indos are centre right. Amusingly the EP office in Dublin has superimposed pics of all of us on the voting chamber in Strasbourg with Paul and myself bunched together on the left away from all the others! I’m sure he won’t like that……
Murphy has a chance if he can take out the FF candidate. FF in no way have a sure seat. Hayes will be a certainty. If Lucinda runs, well we all know, like it or not, she will be a flood plain for votes. No one will realise what the real policies are. ie to the right of Hayes!
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You’re being coy Nessa.
Is it Dublin (in an increasingly crowded “left” field?
Or is it south,,with a chance of displacing the Labour Party and picking up some of the left/independent leftish vote that has nowhere else to go?
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Putting forward BS against Paul Murphy in the Euro’s (and the probable run against Joan Collins in the general election) is a classic example of the sectarianism: putting the interests of the organisation before that of the class.
I have very different perspective from the SP/CWI and I think the SP played a negative role in the demise of the ULA (though to be fair, who didnt?) but Paul Murphy is the sitting MEP and running against him can only weaken his hopes of keeping the seat. In addition regardless of what you think of the SP, most open-minded people on the left would agree that he has been a principled and hard working public rep. Equally, running against Joan is absurd and can only lessen her chances of re-election. Again you dont have to be an uncritical supporter to accept that Joan is a principled fighter for the working class and that the loss of the seat would be a real set-back.
I have good comrades that I work closely with who are members of the SWP party (across the water) but recent events have shown a marked degeneration. It seems that the triumph of the most backward elements in the SWP (despite the continued principled opposition of a significant minority) in the UK is reflected in Ireland. I guess it shows how inward looking they are: they must know how bad this looks to everyone else on the left but they dont care.
BTW, It would be good if the SP showed that they are capable of putting the class first by not running someone against Clare Daly. One can question the judgement of some of Clares recent decisions (not least that decision to back Assange) but just as with Paul and Joan, running someone against her can only have one result: damaging her chance of re-election without any hope of an SP candidate winning,
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+1 Excellent post. I think the statement from the SP was pretty good all in all, and no mention of CD which I take as an hopeful sign. Just to be clear, I think there are many good people in the SWP all across the org but this is just pointless stuff on their part.
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The concern with future elections in Dublin North is touching, but the rather more pressing issue there is the local election and the possibility that CD might dig up proxy candidates to run against the sitting socialist councillors in the area. The general election is a long way away and the SP, at least, hasn’t even considered the issue yet.
(Also are people suggesting that CD is vulnerable? Or what else is all this concern premised upon? Personally, I think she’ll be first or second elected and will be even if every left current in the country runs candidates there. Barring some unforeseen turn of events involving Wallace in the meantime. That’s not to preemptively justify a decision that hasn’t been taken. I’m just curious about all the apparent concern, particularly as nobody seems at all concerned about the much more pressing locals and possible clashes there)
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Hasn’t Ken Doyle been declared the United Left candidate for Swords who I assume will be going up against SP Councillor Eugene Coppinger?
That said there are now 9 seats in the LEA, so there’s probably room for at least 2 if not more Left candidates.
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According to ‘Elections Ireland’ Labour took 21 per cent of the vote in Swords in 2009 and 27 per cent in Howth Malahide. If the results next year match current polling at least two thirds of both those votes are up for grabs. I would say many of those who voted Labour are liberal minded and went left in protest at what was then about nine months of economic chaos under the FF/GP government. A lot has happened to these people since 2011 and especially since 2009 and I doubt they’ll go back to FF or vote FG in protest. A considerable portion will go to SF but at least as many will look Left meaning that several Left seats are a possibility. Swords is an area where there has been a socialist profile and presence for a long time and I think Fingal will be a happy hunting ground for Left in 2014.
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I think Fingal will be a happy hunting ground for Left in 2014.
All of Dublin should be: I don’t why no one ever seems to cop how much the combined FF/FG vote has declined over the last few decades, but in the country as a whole it hasn’t gone above 60% since the GE, and much lower in Dublin. With the Labour vote tanking, I reckon the locals and the GE will produce an SF +Left vote of between 40 and 50%
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Sorry, Meant the Locals and Euro election
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Stan, I hope you’re right about that (SF + Left vote in Dublin), hopefully it’ll be weighted more towards the Left than SF. There are grounds for optimism even thought we’re supposed to.be tearing one another apart on this thread. 😉
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“some of Clare’s recent decisions”
Up North with Wallace, as a concerned onlooker/observer of the shenanigans of RIRA/CIRA scum. Cop yourself on, Clare.
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What’s your considered opinion on the anti agreement republicans Joe?
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As far as I am aware Daly does not support any such shenanigans. She has expressed concerns about certain human rights issues. I am very opposed to the militarist republican groups. But effectively interning people and suspending ordinary civil rights only adds to their appeal.Whether we like it or not the respectabilisation of SF has left a vacuum. Alas, the left has been unable to fill it.
It would be a sad day when defence of civil rights is restricted to only those whose politics we approve off.What was the saying “First they came for…”
So maybe be explicit when you make a dig like that above.
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“some of Clare’s recent decisions”, Clare and other TD’s are currently attending the appeal of the Cragavon two, a case which hopefully will collapse in the coming days. Thus far all of the states case has been demolished. She visited Campbell in jail, she recently spoke at an anti – internment meeting and spoke at the public rally demanding the release of Marion Price last year, which I chaired. During all of these activities she has made it clear that her concerns were human rights and justice, and that her attendance or support was not support for any of teh grougings that they may belong to, if I recall at the Marion Price rally she started off by saying that she was not even one of us (Republican).
If we were to follow Joe the Birmingham Six & Guildford 4 would be still in, those releases only came about because a broad front was built on human rights and justice.
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Yep. That’s a good list of the shenanigans I was referring to.
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CB – Many people dislike the SP, SWP and other organisations putting sectarian advantage (promoting their own groups) against the building of mass resistance and a united fightback. It was sectarian maneuvering, much of it behind the scenes, that led to the demise of the ULA. Actions have consequences – something we are facing both nationally and locally in 2014.
I share your view that there are undoubtedly people in these groups who have devoted much of their lives and energies to the cause. But they are members of groups whose leaders promote the elevation of electoralism into the be-all and end-all of political activism. The historic opportunity for Left unity has been dumped.
No wonder there is so much disenchantment with the divisions of the Left. Many who got involved are disgusted with it shenanigans too (hijacking protests, controlling steering committees, packing votes, capturing trade union committee positions, monopolising campaigns, launching fronts, ridiculously replicating the work of one another is separate campaigns/demos/publications etc.). No wonder how so many bend in the winds of anti-socialism given the experience of Stalinist and Maoist tyranny and bureaucratic planning, and wrongly equating this with Marxism and indeed with the struggle for power per se. And the failure of organisations and people, past or currently, attached with this inheritance to disassociate themselves from it.
This is off putting for potential supporters whose first, and healthy instinct is to demand unity and solidarity in the face of the austerity backlash. The Left will never gain mass influence unless it can relate to these healthy gut instincts. Understanding that is the key to building a responsible Left generally, and to pulling the vote successfully.
Politicians should primarily be judged not on their own personal merits and professed policy beliefs, but on what contributes to holding them accountable and the context in which they exist.
Being a “principled and hard working public rep” is admirable. It is a necessary but insufficient condition for getting the vote. Whose efforts and record of activity are best developed to take the class struggle forward? That is the question I will ask myself when I come to decide who I vote for.
In the meantime, once we’ve digested the ‘shock and disgust’ pill, we should probably consider how do we intervene to change this bleak situation and remove the major obstacles to progress. I haven’t worked it out, but I am open to persuasion.
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The Left Forum is organising a day long discussion on the left and its future. Speakers from SF, WP, WSM, SP, CPI, WSM, UL and ex Labour Left have been confirmed so far. It will take place in the teacher’s club, registration at 10.30. Details should be up over the weekend.
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On Saturday 2nd of November.
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Are there two ‘WSM’ groups now? ‘The Judean Workers’ Solidarity Movement’ or ‘The Workers Solidarity Movement of Judea’?
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Bitter enemies over ideological differences that will never be tested. 2 groups that instead of working together in a group that had a real chance of making an impact choose to fall out instead.
Happier being revolutionaries in smoky rooms than actually changing things.
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That, with all due respect Joe, is a pile if old shite. The Socialist Party and the SWP disagree with each other over a whole range of issues, some of which are “tested” and some of which may well never be. But that’s not why there is such bitterness between them.
The bitterness, the hostility, stems directly from the SWPs absolutely ingrained dishonesty and manipulativeness. They are perhaps the most difficult to deal with, work with or interact with genuinely well meaning people in Europe. Their political method is based on disingenuous breathless talk coexisting with a ruthlessly short termist pursuit of their organisational interests. As a direct result just about every group on the left loathes dealing with them. The SP are notable in this regard only because, as the tallest dwarf in the Irish left wing circus, we have to deal with them more often.
The problem isn’t with “2 groups” fighting nor with “the left” being its own worst enemy. It’s with the SWP nine times out of ten. And speaking of which, see my next comment…
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Let it be known that that “Bitter enemies….” post wasn’t me. I am the regular Joe. Don’t know who that was.
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But I’m Joe too ! But not you , or the other one . Luckily I don’t post here .
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Today I went on the DCTU pre-budget march. It was small and depressing. I did however find my mood lightened by an absolutely glorious SWP leaflet. They were handing out two, one under their own name and one as the fictitious People Before Profit Alliance. Both were chiefly devoted to putting the boot into Labour, which is fair enough and not particularly notable. But the PBPA one also addressed wider issues, and that’s where the fun began.
Now, as anyone reading this discussion will know, the SWP have decided, for sect building reasons, to stand a Euro election candidate against a socialist incumbent. They don’t mention this directly, but they do have some thoughts on the future of the left, which people who’ve been around the left may enjoy. Here’s how the leaflet ends:
“But crucially we need to also offer a left alternative to Labour at the next election. It is past time that the Left put its differences behind it and worked together to build a united alternative on the 90% of issues we all agree on. With Labour collapsing in the polls it is crucial we offer a progressive alternative, otherwise demoralisation and bitterness can feed a new right. PBP initiated the call that led to the formation of the United Left Alliance over two years ago; we are renewing that call for left unity today.”
I am not making that up. They really did have the cheek to hand that out today, on the very same week when they decided to stand a candidate against Paul Murphy. An appeal for unity breathlessly pouring from their mouths, even while they knife you. It’s that dedication to absolutely brazen disingenuousness that forms the core of their completely toxic contribution to the culture of the left.
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How many, roughly, do you think were there today?
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500 perhaps. It was dismal. Some good visual displays though.
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500?! Jaysus!
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I can’t vouch for my own accuracy. I didn’t do a count. But it was very small.
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Looking at the pics online your guesstimate wasn’t too far off. At least those horrid Trots weren’t dragging thousands of the unwashed ontothe streets and mucking up DCTU’s big day out. A protest lead by a huge banner claiming ‘Austerity Kills’ is not asking to be taken seriously while it allows one of the enforcers of austerity – SiPTU and Jack O’Connor – play such a prominent role. It appears thT
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breathlessly pouring from their mouths
You don’t think you may be trying too hard at this point?
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I’m disappointed that you find my tone a bit grating, ejh, but I’ll soldier on somehow.
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Mark P takes umbrage at my reference to Clare Daly. I didnt state that the SP were going to stand against her just that i hoped they wouldnt. If you read back on my post you can see that the key point is that standing against a sitting left rep is usually just plain and simple sectarianism. So, although I was not aware of the possibility of UL candidates standing against sitting SP cllrs, if they were to do so that would equally be an example of sectarianism.
Now of course there are always exceptions to the general rule: where a left rep has voted for a coalition gov or has been exposed as personally corrupt etc. but most of us would agree that the case of the SWP running BS in the Euro’s/general is a clear-cut case of sectraianism and I would argure that if UL or SP run against sitting reps in the locals or general that that would also be sectarianism. This is regardless of what my view of is of those groups policies or ideology. So for ex. of all the left groups, I would disagree most with the SWP but I would be oposed to any left candidate standing against RBB in Dun Laoghaire.
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I’d be very unhappy too at UL candidates standing against sitting SP cllrs. Your last paragraph sums up my thoughts. I’ve lots of criticisms of the SWP and its political practice, which much of the time makes the SP and all others look like the very picture of restraint, but again I’d be unkeen on any run against RBB from whatever quarter.
MarkP, any chance of a scan of that leaflet so we could post it up and I can forward a copy to IEL?
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With 22.16% for the SP, 25.37% for LP, 4.63% for SF and 3.3% for GP at the Last election in the Swords ward and considering the change in overall voting intentions since the last election along with the increase to nine seats, I’d say that the United Left running a candidate shouldn’t exactly be obstructive to the Socialist Party managing to get Eugene Coppinger elected. After all the Quota will be 10% with loads of free floating Labour votes around for the taking.
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CB, I didn’t really take umbrage. I just thought it was an odd addition. It looked more like a sort of reflexive desire to appear “even handed” and non-factional rather than a comment on a real issue. I broadly agree with your sentiments here – including the desirability of others giving Boyd Barrett a respect that the SWP are constitutionally incapable of reciprocating. I wouldn’t go quite so far as to assume however that running where there is an entirely safe left incumbent is necessarily wrong.
WbS, I don’t have a functioning scanner right now, but I could try emailing you a photo of it?
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Cool, back and front, thanks a million.
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Though maybe their message only requires on side of a page.
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Right it’s sent. It was, as you suggest, only one side of paper long. And not a very full side either.
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Ta, thanks a million, I’ve replied using a different email, I can get email at the WBS one but not send it.
Re the leaflet, it is entertaining, in a way.
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Are there ever any circumstances where standing another Left candidate where there is a Left incumbent is justified? If Fingal goes the way I think it will in the 2014 locals then running an SP candidate in 2016 would be probably the most sensible think. CD will likely top the poll in 2016 and SF have never really organised there, for whatever reason (no candidate in 2011, for instance), so there is likely to be a receptive audience to another Left formation and the SP are that in Dublin North.
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Thats the big question isn’t it, will SF finally make gains in areas where the Left was the only show in town.
Dun Laoghaire, North Dublin and to a lesser extent Dublin West have not been happy hunting grounds for SF.
They didn’t even put forward candidates in Dublin North or Dun Laoghaire in 2011.
If the opnion polls are correct they should be in with a shout of seats in the likes of these areas where they were never strong before.
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The Left-SF relationship, and how it is understood within the political thought processes or ordinary voters will be very interesting to observe next year. One suspects that SF is as far ‘Left’ as most voters will go with their 1st preferences but may well transfer further Left. A big win for SF candidates, and I mean candidates coming in with 1.5-2 quotas, could well benefit further Left candidates who will be using the same anti-austerity message as SF.
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The Marxist sects have and will have no significant voter appeal, although an occasional candidate will be elected in spite of his/her organisational affiliation. I expect to see Clare Daly getting a boost as an independent next time out.
Sinn Féin does have a real base and some of their candidates will owe their election to their party affiliation, but the lingering smell of gunpowder limits their appeal to older voters with memories of the 70s and 80s. I’d see 25 as the upper limit for their Dáil representation after the next election.
The big winners in the next general election will be independents. Left independents will benefit, but the anti-party tide will also sweep in a lot of right-wingers.
None the less, there could be something in the region of 15-20 left independent TDs, and with Labour representation reduced to single digits an unprecedented opportunity will exist to form a credible, broad-based left party.
One hopes there will enough old-timers with memories of the Socialist Labour Party around to ensure that the door is locked, barred and bolted against entryists.
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Should it be ‘locked, barred and bolted’ against Finian McGrath, for example?
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The elephant in the room is that while people are talking about too many left candidates in some areas, there are many constituencies where no left candidates will run.
If for example, you want to vote for left candidate in Roscommon/South Leitrim, Clare or Mayo, who do you vote for? If I could ask one thing of the various parties of the left, it would be that – together – they agree to run a candidate in every constituency.
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To what end in the Roscommon/South Leitrims, Clares or Mayos?
Surely if there’s any logical reason (building if not winning) for devoting scant resources in Roscommon/South Leitrim, Clare or Mayo then it would done.
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Surely there is as much reason to organise and build in these places as anywhere else? I don’t see how any left organisation can see itself changing the nation without actually having a national organisation.
Left candidates would be as likely to be successful in constituencies like the above as in the likes of Sligo-North Leitrim or Tipperary South.
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Declan Bree proved a long time ago that is in fact possible to build a left vote in what might seem the inhospitable environment of the Irish west.
But stay in your Jackeen cocoon, why don’t you.
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And in fairness to Bree, he did that while promoting various causes related to welfare of travellers. He deserves no small amount of credit for that. as Phil Hogan could tell you, if there was ever a cause that had no benefits when it comes to electoral gains, it would be the rights of travellers.
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Fair point re Bree.
BTW I wasn’t saying stay just in the cities.
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Sectarianism?
WTF??!
For a site with such a disturbingly “nuanced” view of the 30 year-long campaign of vicious sectarian murder by the Provos, seems inappropriate to say the least to be bandying about that loaded term in relation to a petty little squabble amongst frenemies.
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Sectarianism is a term with wider meaning than simply religious animus. That you are only familiar with the term in one usage doesn’t make it’s use in other contexts either incorrect or inappropriate
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In furtherance to what Mark P has said above: Political Sectarianism.
You have misconstrued the meaning of the word in this context.
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Come, Guardian, enter our web of sin. . .
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Event:
Does Ireland need a new left party?
A debate organised by Left Forum
Saturday 2nd November 2013 in Teachers Club, Parnell Square, Dublin
10:30 Registration
10:45 Panel of speakers representing diverse points of view on this question
Chair: Alan Myler (WP)
Speakers: Gavin Mendel-Gleason (LF), Eoin O Broin (SF), Paul Murphy (SP), Cian O Callaghan (I), John Lowry (WP), Joan Collins (UL), Tom Redmond (CPI), Seamus Healy (WUA), Mark Hoskins (WSM), Richard Boyd Barrett (SWP)
12:00 Q & A / points of view from the floor / indicative vote
1:15 Lunch
2:30 World cafe discussion groups
3:30 Plenary
Chair: Helena Sheehan (LF)
5:00 Conclusion
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A talking shop of people who have tried, and failed, to work together in the past.
I’ll give that a swerve, stay at home and watch Groundhog Day.
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“If you’re not failing every now and again, it’s a sign you’re not doing anything very innovative.” -Woody Allen
Don’t be a chronic pessimist.
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Alternatively.
The definition of madness is doing the same thing, the same way, over and over again. And expecting a different outcome each time.
But… good luck to all.
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Point is, it’s not particularly innovative and those speakers fail a good bit more than now and again.
Personally I think that for any serious pro-working class org to emerge it wouldn’t involve many of those names. If any.
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Over to you then, Caretaker, to show the organisers and the rest of us how it should be done and who it would involve. 🙂
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Yes, Caretaker, go on, give us a few names you think would be involved in a serious pro-working class organisation.
Joe, the real repetition is on the existing left. Though I don’t see too much value in hearing those who threw away the ULA (and I don’t just mean the Socialist Party speaker) talking about a new party.
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Haven’t a clue, did I give the impression I did?
By the same token I don’t know who will win the world Cup next year but I know it won’t be England.
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The speakers are fairly obviously intended to represent the opinions of every group and current to the left of Labour. It is not a list of components of some proposed new organisation nor is there any proposal that these people do anything together, repetitive or innovative.
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Precisely, it is a debate about whether there is a gap in the left that requires filling. It does not mean that all these people are gathering together to form a new party (To this end, the inclusion of the WSM might have been a clue that this was not the make-up of a new party).
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Paul Murphy now lost because of SWP sectarianism!
The anti-austerity vote was split, just as I feared.
Shame on the PBPA ( SWP ) for trying to compete against a genuine socialist fighter. Now the left-wing of Europe is represented by reformists. Just look at those parties who sit in the European United Left/Nordic Green Left. These parties do not even call for socialism, let alone a workers government or a democratic planned economy!
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