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What you want to say? Open Thread, 14th March, 2012 March 14, 2012

Posted by WorldbyStorm in Culture, Economy, European Politics, Irish Left Online Document Archive, Irish Politics, Northern Ireland, Sinn Féin, The Left, US Politics.
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As always, following on Dr. X’s suggestion, it’s all yours, “announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose”, feel free.

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1. akimynation - March 14, 2012

Im tired. 😦 thanks for this freedom wall! just what i needed!

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2. TheOtherRiverR(h)ine - March 14, 2012

Looks like America’s finest political loonies have graced us with their presence.
http://laroucheirishbrigade.wordpress.com/about/

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CL - March 14, 2012

-Though often dismissed as a bizarre political cult, the LaRouche organization and its various front groups are a fascist movement whose pronouncements echo elements of Nazi ideology.-
http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/

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bjg - March 15, 2012

Do you mean this R(h)hine? http://wp.me/Ppxzo-Rd

bjg

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TheOtherRiverR(h)ine - March 15, 2012

@CL – I must say even if they are a bunch of wierd fascists, I’m in total agreement with regrads to their policies towards AIDS. I’d go as far as Howard Hughes and say we should apply it to everyone with any form of viral, bacterial, fungal, protozoal disease. Only way to be clean. And don’t mind those pesky public health officials or virologists. Aren’t they all jewish freemasons.

Oh I’m selling some cheap sarcasm detectors if anyone want’s to buy one.

@bjg – I live down the road in Quin.

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CL - March 16, 2012

-Following the LaRouchian victories in the March 1986 Illinois primaries, some observers argued that the Democratic Party’s immune system had broken down. In fact, the problem went far beyond the Democrats. The major media had failed over the years to vigorously unmask LaRouche. Jewish and black organizations and the left had largely ignored his dramatic political inroads in the early 1980s, blithely allowing him to operate his international network of hate from midtown Manhattan with nary a protest. Reagan administration aides, GOP operatives, Teamster leaders, and others on the right had treated him as just another political ally, to be used as needed.-(From ‘Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism, by Dennis King) entire book available on line.
http://lyndonlarouche.org/newamericanfascism.htm

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3. ejh - March 14, 2012

I understand Mr Myers has excelled himself..

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WorldbyStorm - March 14, 2012

I read the text it’s available online. Assuming its genuine it was a master class in finger pointing…

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Tomboktu - March 14, 2012

The Independent has removed the text.

Panti posted a screen grab: http://www.pantibar.com/blog.aspx?contentid=20886

Pastebin has posted the text: http://pastebin.com/g0BbzzWK

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4. Pedro - March 14, 2012

As a supporter of the DPRK I wish to register my objections to the constant connection of that State on this site with the WP. Trots you have now been warned.

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5. CL - March 14, 2012

Obama’s address to the U.A.W.

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6. ghandi - March 14, 2012

Tragic week for Ballybough, three funerals Thursday & Friday for the Anto Burnett & Joey Redmond who were tortured and shot and then burned, and today we buried baby Abbey Cummins who died in a traqic accident at the weekend and whose 3rd birthday was on monday. Her funeral was in St. Agathas this morning she was placed in a pink coffin and a white coach pulled by two white horses. A very unreal funeral, in a packed church of stunned silence.

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EamonnDublin - March 14, 2012

What’s tragic about drug dealers being killed by other drug dealers? Sad that you would link the terrible death of a 3 year old innocent with those of your kin. Still defending drug dealers….no wonder your still persona non gratis throughout the inner city and the wider political sphere

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WorldbyStorm - March 14, 2012

That’s out of order ED. To be honest a lot more tasteless that you’d use a comment about a 3 year old dying to link to a political attack.

Re persona non gratis, that’s definitely not the impression I get from the household tax campaign and those who I know involved in it in the NIC, and I have no axe at all to grind here one way or another.

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7. Mark P - March 14, 2012

I see that RTE’s decision to show the (very interesting) documentary “Pyjama Girls” last night resulted in absolute torrent of abusive, bigoted, sneering on twitter last night. And then Joe Duffy, reactionary as always, kept it going today. The sheer, visceral, loathing expressed on twitter (it was the top trending subject in Ireland all night) was startling to behold.

As an aside, one of the side issues which led to much twitter fulminating was the notion that RTE had “wasted our license fee” on the film. In fact, it is almost unimaginable that RTE would commission a sympathetic film documenting a part of the lives of two socially and economically marginalised teenage girls. If it had been an RTE production, it would have been a boorish “expose” about our allegedly parasitical underclass and their over generous benefits.

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seedot - March 14, 2012

yeah, it was as if the mere presence of these young girls on our screens was offensive to people. Having seen it in the cinema last year I was struck by how powerful a piece of filmmaking it was – although last night I ruined it for myself by watching the twitter reaction.

interesting stuff in the film about peoples relationship to place – about the flats being like your house so you could wear what you wanted, and also about pyjamas as a fashion statement to replace the fashion that hadn’t been invented yet. (all sorts of ideas about body consciousness and defensible spaces tied up in their choice of clothing).

But for twitter the accents and chips for tea were enough to complain about it being made.

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Mark P - March 14, 2012

“yeah, it was as if the mere presence of these young girls on our screens was offensive to people”

Yes, or perhaps more precisely their presence on (something approaching) their own terms, rather than as object lessons set up to be ridiculed or monstered.

In fact, the twitter timeline was almost as revealing as the film itself. And, you are right that there was almost no interest displayed in the wider points made in the film.

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WorldbyStorm - March 14, 2012

It’s interesting how thought out pyjama wearing actually is.

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seedot - March 14, 2012

in the words of the filmmaker – ‘a soft silent revolution’.

so now you know.

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WorldbyStorm - March 14, 2012

Once had a group in third level college, ironically or not actually located in the inner city, who in one class made a big song and dance about pyjama wearers. Had to point out that half of them were wearing their own uniform of combats (as was I that day) and probably for much the same reason.

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seedot - March 15, 2012

@WbS i walk by a couple of junctions with heavy pyjama populations every day on my way to work. I actually don’t mind it – not as ridiculous a fashion as some of the goth (now emo i am informed by my teenage daughter) kids at the central bank.

The reaction to it though is fascinating – and makes it obviously an attractive choice for someone trying to provoke.

@Mark P – do you think it was on their (Lauren and her friend) own terms? I know it was sympathetic but have been wondering about their control of the film.

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Tel - March 15, 2012

I am wondering what people’s problem with the documentary was – was it the form of the documentary or the subject matter? was there a similar reponse to Knuckle? Or a bit of both?

I probably don’t want to know though as it is depressing.

It is good that RTE are finally showing some decent documentaries.

One thing was a bit confusing in Pajama Girls though, where were they living – one minute they seemed to be around the Basin st. area and the next out in Ballyfermot, I think they were living in the former but I missed their connection with the latter.

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8. Mark P - March 14, 2012

Speaking of Joe Duffy, this youtube videos is always worth a listen:

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9. neilcaff - March 14, 2012

An actual serious question about the Workers Party for a change of pace. I’ve been meaning to ask this for ages but never remembered. The recent silliness brought it back to mind.

Why are the Workers Party and the Communist Party of Ireland two separate parties? Or to put it another way, what are the actual political differences between the two organisations?
I know in the past they had very different takes on the National Question, particularly the Provo’s, but I can’t imagine that is a significant difference now?

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Eddie B - March 15, 2012

I think the analysis of why the conflict occured and how it progressed in Northern Ireland would still be a substantial issue. The CPI supported political status, the WP did not, and despite the fact that was 30 years ago it’s no reason not to argue about it. There were fairly bitter disputes within the trade unions, north and south, differences on social partnership, differences on Fianna Fail etc. The CPI had a much larger northern Protestant membership than the WP, but took a more republican line. The WP were always a little embarrassed by this. Both claimed to have been central to NICRA.
(The CPI were actually more critical of…I won’t even say the far-off state’s name, in fear that it provokes an outbreak of slagging.)

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neilcaff - March 15, 2012

Interesting, thanks for that. I recently saw an article on the KKE’s website with a statement from the Communist parties of the 5 European countries with the highest unemployment, which included Ireland.

The CPoI and the WP were both signatories. One of the things that caught my eye the concluding paragraphs:

“Only a socialist economy, that is to say a centrally planned economy that will be based on workers’ power and the socialized means of production can guarantee the right to work for all.

This is what happened in the Soviet Union and the other socialist countries and it is a historical achievement and one of the many accomplishments of the socialist countries.
Our parties call you to struggle every day, to struggle for the abolition of the exploitation of man by man, for a society without unemployment, for socialism which can satisfy the needs of the people.”

The fact that both the CPoI and the WP were agreeable to sign up to this indicated a high degree of political agreement

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neilcaff - March 15, 2012

Forgot to put the link to the KKE statement: http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2012/2012-02-28-anergeia/

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Eddie B - March 15, 2012

Should also mention that there are strong personal dislikes between some leading people-going back years. Formal political agreement is no barrier to intense hatred you know.

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Mark P - March 15, 2012

Are there any significant political differences in terms of strategy, tactics and analysis for today? Or are the differences entirely about things that happened 30 years ago and various personal antipathies?

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Eddie B - March 15, 2012

The CPI are closer to the Peoples Movement, Anthony Coughlan type Euro-scepticism. Have a greener outlook culturally, though the WP has certainly shifted back in that direction in the last few years. The competition for the Moscow franchise still rankles.
CPI would be slightly more militant historically on union issues: some strong feelings between the two parties in Belfast over union policy. Still bitterness over RTE and Section 31 battles in unions.
Tommy McKearney’s book was launched in CPI shop- never likely to happen in a WP shop, if they had one.
I’m struggling here though…ask Tom Redmond…

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10. Anonymous Subversive - March 15, 2012

Just to prove that not every academic in Germany is of the ordo/neo-liberal persuasion – here is the Englished version of an AKG (Association for Critical Social Research) paper, signed by about 100 scholars.

Democracy instead of the Fiscal Treaty.

The text might make a nice post in itself but these are the demands at the end:

• no ratification of the Fiscal Treaty, and dropping the set of EU laws on “Economic Governance”;
• cancelling public debts, introducing controls on capital flows, and converting banks into public service providers;
• redistributing social wealth from the top downwards by a new tax system;
• expanding the social infrastructure and starting to transform the economy with a programme of social and environmental investment;
• shortening working hours;
• democratizing politics and the economy radically at all levels;
• ending the racist policy of Fortress Europe – residence permits and legal status for all.

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Anonymous Subversive - March 15, 2012

The original text and list of signatories can be found here at taz.de

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CL - March 15, 2012

Good to see some German anti-ordoliberalism. The writers of the manifesto rightly place the fiscal compact treaty in the historical context of the economic policies of the Chilean butcher, Pinochet.

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11. Anonymous Subversive - March 15, 2012

You may have already covered it, but the long-suspected links between the police/soi-disant ‘security services’ and the blacklisting of workers for political and trades union activities in the UK was interesting.

Presumably a similar arrangement operates in the Republic, and presumably it has now been privatised, as in the UK. Does anyone know who got the contract?

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12. ghandi - March 15, 2012

ED’s comment is not even worthy of reply, the usual crap he comes out with. Three families are grieving for their dead and this has an impact on the community. I’m sick of the crap that comes from ED and his missing sidekick DorothyB, I as those on here who know me personally live with and pick up the pieces from drug addiction every day of the week. So ED why do’t you just go and …………..yourself.

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13. bjg - March 15, 2012
bjg - March 15, 2012

Oh, and here’s a nice clear piece about promissory notes, and why we’re burning the notes rather than the bondholders.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/03/philip-pilkington-the-irish-begin-to-wake-up-to-the-fact-that-they-are-repaying-money-that-is-then-burned.html

bjg

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neilcaff - March 15, 2012

Socialist Party has an article on a similar theme: http://www.socialistparty.net/economy/908-promissory-notes-madness-must-end

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CL - March 16, 2012

“Indenturing Ireland’s taxpayers for the benefit of creditors of the country’s mismanaged banks was an idea conceived in Dublin. But if the previous Irish government first set out on that suicidal path, the European Central Bank and the Commission forced Ireland to stay on it. They should stop blocking the last remaining possibility to alleviate the pain.”-
Financial Times.March, 14
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7c761138-6ddc-11e1-b9c7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1pEEJuG3C

How likely is it that Ireland’s debt peonage will be alleviated (but not abolished) before the referendum?

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14. ejh - March 15, 2012

CLR seems to have decided today that I need to log on in order to comment when providing the email address I’ve been providing when commenting for the past nine million years. Hence I am employing a different one….

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Mark P - March 15, 2012

The same thing has just happened to me. I’m not sure if one of you lot has fiddled with the settings or if someone at WordPress has done it across the board.

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WorldbyStorm - March 15, 2012

Don’t think it’s us, but I’ll go look. All your symbols are different. Weird.

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Mark P - March 15, 2012

It just happened to me over at Revolutionary Programme’s site too, so I strongly suspect that WordPress have made some annoying change aimed at forcing people to register.

The symbols have changed because we’ve used a different email address.

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15. Mark P - March 15, 2012

A.N. Wilson’s biography of Hitler gets a rather amusing review in the New Statesman:

http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2012/03/hitler-wilson-german-british

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maddurdu - March 15, 2012

Jaysus he gives him a reich mauling in that.

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Starkadder - March 16, 2012

“He (Wilson) claims that political correctness is based on doing the opposite to Hitler. “Hitler made homosexuals wear pink triangles, so we shall have gay marriages.” But he didn’t just make them wear pink triangles in the camps – he had them killed in large numbers – and the arguments that have legitimised gay marriages are different and have nothing to do with the horror of Nazism.”

Wilson is obviously a graduate of the Jonah Goldberg
School of Historical Idiocy.

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16. tomasoflatharta - March 16, 2012

required reading for all people genuinely interested in dealing with the violent legacy of the Northern Ireland Troubles (1969-1998, signing of the Good Friday Agreement http://tomasoflatharta.com/2012/03/16/1323/

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17. tomasoflatharta - March 16, 2012

Eddie B on “the left loony fringe/ Sinn Fein”

“Originally Posted by man100 View Post
Eddie B says in his post that he will do the exact opposite of what the left loony fringe/ Sinn Fein ask him to do. That’s not thinking for yourself & that is my point..
I have thought about their policies over the years and its the usual scaremongering and inward narrow looking nonsense – see also last years Elections how their policies fared.”

http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129466&page=2

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Eddie B - March 16, 2012

At the risk of repeating myself, I am not whoever was psoting on a Cork site two years ago

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18. Eddie B - March 16, 2012

I gotta tell you my good man that I am a member of the peoples republic of Cork. But I am surprised by Mr. Moloney’s turn around on Adams.

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19. Eddie B - March 16, 2012

I meant to say I’m NOT on Cork blogs but never mind. There’s more than one Eddie B in the world you know.

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20. tomasoflatharta - March 16, 2012

We can agree there is more than one Eddie B from Cork – Some Cedar Lounge Readers may remember the former RTE journalist Eddie Barrett, a Munster man – here is a link to a fascinating clip : the deferential Mr Barrett questions the Reverend Dr Ian Paisley on the Cameron Report, in which the cleric nicknamed Papa Doc was heavily criticised. Barrett allows the bigoted politician to get away with an outrageous racist rant (not a Vincent Browne performance by any means), though he does suggest Paisley is wrong on one thing – the Cameron Report did not “eulogise” the IRA.

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/smil/t11/t11_cameron_ipaisley_tv.smil

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21. Watty Cox - March 16, 2012

Sad news- Conor Lynch, a veteran of the UCC Republican
Club and later the British and Irish Communist Organisation,
has died. His cremation was held in Belfast on February
8th. I never met Conor-I sincerely wish I had. 😦

The March issue of the “Irish Political Review” has wonderfully
moving tributes to Lynch by Jack Lane and Malachi Lawless.
I’d like to quote Lawless’ closing words here..

“He kept the faith, the Fenian faith and in his own small
way helped keep it alive in others”.

“Suaimhneas síoraí dá anam.”

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Starkadder - March 16, 2012

If I’m not mistaken, Conor Lynch was with the
Cork Housing Action Committee as well.

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22. Eddie B - March 16, 2012

I read with interest Ed Moloney’s article in the Irish Echo. I concur re Boston College. I just find it funny given his mission to take down Gerry Adams over the years. Hence pots and kettles. I also find his tone somewhat alarming- ie. Roy Greenslade’s name- see below

http://thebrokenelbow.com/2012/03/12/roy-greenslime-outed-in-independent/

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Garibaldy - March 16, 2012

That Independent article got it all a bit wrong about McDonald I thought, whatever about Greenslade.

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Mark P - March 16, 2012

The Independent article is useful in so far as it details Greenslade’s longstanding pro-Provo sentiments. Most of us here already knew where McDonald is coming from.

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Garibaldy - March 16, 2012

Indeed, although I was trying to make a bigger point, which is that I am fairly sure that Greenslade can use it against the guy from the Independent as it makes him look at best naive and uninformed, and at worst much more than that. In an article about submerged political viewpoints about NI, it was a glaring gap.

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23. Mark P - March 17, 2012

The Guardian have dissapointingly changed their funniest ever headline:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/16/kony-2012-campaigner-detained

It still couldn’t happen to a nicer religious fruitcake and propagandist for imperialism.

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24. XtraXtra - March 19, 2012

Last Wednesday, 14th March, Patrick Honohan said: “.. there is less reason to be inhibited about re-possessing [some] buy-to-let properties” and that “it is surely now past time for the banks to be dealing more pro-actively” regarding “over-indebted [buy-to-let] borrowers”. So, at least he seems realistic and maybe even equitable.

The next day, on ‘Drivetime’ it was said: there are only “very small
numbers” of buy-to-let in default; that only 6% (4,938 properties) of the 82,300 (b-t-l) properties are in default.

And so, that leaves 77,362 buy-to-let properties that are cantering
along, very nicely, thank you. And how is this? There was an interesting comment from Aideen Hayden, of Threshold:-
“Over 60% of people living in rented properties are in Rent Supplement properties paid for by the State.”
Each year, the media state the amount paid by the State of ‘rent allowance’, yet, there are also schemes of: Long-term Leasing scheme, and the Rental Accommodation Scheme. These are local authority agreements between local authorities and investors.
And these are being, almost badger like, mantraed, to the applicants who apply for ‘Local Authority’ housing

A very decent comment by Fergus Finlay, is enlightening: “we have this perception of Buy-to-Let market as ‘investors’, as ‘property men’ and so on; and, the vast majority of them are nurses, teachers, guards, [and] bank officials; who were encouraged and inveigled, and marketed and sold: ‘go buy a house; build a pension’.”

So, no dedicated (decently designed) housing for local authority applicants; and being used to build someone’s individual pension.

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25. Mark P - March 25, 2012

Great turnout for the Household Tax rally at the National Stadium earlier. Two and a half thousand crammed into the place and more than five hundred at an overflow rally outside.

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